The new Macbook Pro´s

[Stephen Gentle]

Is this official? That it has support for 16gb? What I hear is that while it can be installed with 16gb of memory it doesn't use more then 8gb, so you loose 8gb that is just in there, not used.

There was a case where they upgraded one of the older models to support more RAM through an EFI update, but it may have been going from 4 to 8 GB max two or three generations ago. Can't really remember exactly.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

I'm really questioning the need for a RED Rocket. REDCINE-X obviously still needs the Rocket as it's not multithreaded like old REDCINE was (yet, anyway). But I can generate dailies from Premiere or Resolve just as fast without the Rocket on this box. Makes one rethink our current slot deprived state...

Same here... noticed the same results in Davinci Resolve and Premiere Pro CS5 on my 12 core MP with 24GB RAM. Perhaps for high end mastering the RED Rocket is still needed. Albeit many on here have stated that the debayer algorithm built-in to the RR card is not suited for mastering. But as my recent debayer test as shown:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55559

Many can't differentiate between half res good and full res premium. Some even prefer the sharper look of half res good.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Is this official? That it has support for 16gb? What I hear is that while it can be installed with 16gb of memory it doesn't use more then 8gb, so you loose 8gb that is just in there, not used.

It's "official". Not sure where you're hearing the info about 8GB not being used. The new Intel mobile chipset supports up to 64GB, not sure what the Apple EFI limit is, but it definitely supports 16GB on both the mid 2010 model MBP's as well as the new 2011 models. The late '09 MBP's technically support it as well, but I think they were the ones that needed the EFI update.

The problem with 16GB right now is the cost. I'm sure Apple will offer it as an official configuration option as soon as Samsung and/or Hynix (their two primary RAM suppliers) offer reasonable 8GB SODIMM modules. With current 8GB module street prices hovering around $750 -- or $700 more than a 4GB module, it makes one pause to consider whether they REALLY need it.

IMO, I would pay for the 16GB RAM upgrade on a new MBP before I spent the money on a 480GB or larger SSD. However, in either case, the resale value of that purchase will tank fast as SSD's and the newer 8GB SODIMM modules are going to drop in price significantly over the next several months.

As for 16GB in an MBP / notebook... That's going to be overkill in most cases. Only necessary for special-case usage and certain 64bit applications. For 32bit apps, which is still mostly everything out there, a good rule of thumb is 2GB per CPU core since each app can't address more than about 3.2GB of space and can't access more than 2GB per process. Apps like After Effects or other rendering apps allocate separate processes per CPU core and run them as a CPU-bound thread or node. Each with up to 2GB of usable allocated memory.

Within 64bit application space, there is the potential to access a whole lot more RAM. However, with most current applications, the rule of thumb is still 2GB per core. If you do have a specific need for more, then pushing to 3GB, maybe even 4GB, per core can have an advantage. However, in the desktop realm, larger memory capacities often come at a performance hit and one has to find a balance.

These are notebook systems we are talking about here. Some people have unrealistic expectations of what they can or should do. While it's safe to say that the new i7 quad-core MBP's will outperform the quad-core Mac Pro towers of 2008 in many situations, they're still a compact mobile system with limitations.

8GB RAM is going to be fine most of the time if you keep your expectations on a realistic level and don't try to run multiple "large" apps at the same time like many people do on their desktop/tower systems. I have 8GB in my new MBP that I just bought. It runs great. I'll upgrade to 16GB when the price drops later this year... The magic price for me for the upgrade will probably be $250 or less, or 1/6th of the current price. It may fall to that point by the end of the year, but it really all depends on how many manufacturers jump onto the 8GB module bandwagon and how many consumers start buying the modules to drive prices down.

Same here... noticed the same results in Davinci Resolve and Premiere Pro CS5 on my 12 core MP with 24GB RAM. Perhaps for high end mastering the RED Rocket is still needed. Albeit many on here have stated that the debayer algorithm built-in to the RR card is not suited for mastering. But as my recent debayer test as shown:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55559

The days of the RED Rocket are numbered. With 8 and 10-core CPUs hitting later this year, faster RAM and further software improvements from the likes of Adobe, Avid, etc.. there will come a point when brute-force processing on common CPUs will overtake the Rocket. We're actually there now with the current "Westmere" Xeons, if only the software were a bit more efficient.

As for the algorithm built into the Rocket not being suited, I'm not sure where people come up with that, but it's a bunch of persistent FUD that I've seen too. The Rocket hardware as well as the RED SDK software both share the same algorithms. There have been people with problem Rocket cards outputting images with too much aliasing or other issues. But that's a problem and not an indicator of actual quality. The Rocket currently does not support noise reduction or OLPF compensation in hardware. This can sometimes be a perceived issue as well and those are two things that are on the long, long list of "to-do" Rocket features.

In terms of quality a full debayer is always best. But the perception of how the image looks can change. I too have clients that prefer half-res debayers at times and I have to agree that the half-res can often look better when pushed to a consumer display that tends to do its own internal processing and sharpening. And that is always a factor when delivering to consumer distribution formats. We see it evidenced in studio DVD and Blu-Ray releases. A prime example is "The Dark Knight" Blu-Ray. Terrible over-sharpening and edge enhancement. It's painful to watch on a large 1080p DLP display or LCOS / DLP projection system. But the studio didn't master the Blu-Ray to satisfy those display conditions, as they account for less than 1% of their audience. They mastered the disc to look best on consumer HDTV panels from 37" to 52" in size that tend to internally process the image. "TDK" Blu-Ray looks phenomenal on a Panasonic or Samsung 42" 1366x768 plasma, btw... As if it was mastered just for that display... yep.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but final output looks vs. true image quality are two different things that don't always equate to the same thing. We see a lot of disparity between the two targets, depending on a client's preferences and how they are viewing.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

The days of the RED Rocket are numbered. With 8 and 10-core CPUs hitting later this year, faster RAM and further software improvements from the likes of Adobe, Avid, etc..
there will come a point when brute-force processing on common CPUs will overtake the Rocket.
We're actually there now with the current "Westmere" Xeons, if only the software were a bit more efficient.

Jeff,

not so sure what you are talking about.

RED ROCKET (made and assembled by DVS maker of Clipster in Germany).

Overview:

Designed by RED for Mac, PC and Linux, RED ROCKET™ is the answer to prayer for realtime 4K RGB playback and realtime R3D™ transcoding.
When RED burst onto the scene in 2007, realtime transcoding was possible only at a 6 figure cost.
Today, for less than $5K, 4K footage is as easy to work with as HD. RED technology at its best.
Affordable, no compromise solutions that continue to tear down the barriers of "what was" and make possible "what will be".

Features:

Decode and debayer 4K R3D™ files realtime, as well as the ability to decode 5K. Hyper-accelerated transcode to any system codec.
Plays full quality realtime 4K to 4K monitor or projector from DVI output (requires RED BREAKOUT BOX).
Plays full quality 2K/1080P scaled from 4K footage out the Dual Link HD-SDI from RED Rocket card.
Plays full quality 2K scaled from 4K footage realtime through system graphics card and monitor.


LINK >>>http://www.red.com/products/red-rocket

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jeff,

not so sure what you are talking about.

What I'm talking about is the latest 12-core dual Xeon at 3.4GHz can crank out 4K frames at full-resolution, full-debayer quality just as fast, if not faster, than the Rocket can.

Intel will be releasing faster CPUs with faster cores, and more of those cores, later this year. The Rocket is nice in that it offloads much of that processing onto a dedicated card. However, CPU power is always improving and in the near future, we'll be able to process through 4K and 5K R3D files at full quality on our CPUs at greater speed than we can with the Rocket.

The Rocket is already a bottleneck in Adobe Premiere as the CPUs can crank out lower-resolution working frames faster than the Rocket can do full-resolution frames and scale them down to working resolution. All debayer operations on the Rocket are done at full resolution. In Premiere, on a fast 8 or 12 core system, it performs best to turn the Rocket OFF while working and then turn it ON for final render output.

As of right now, the Rocket is still necessary for most post workflows because REDCINE-X and STORM are heavily dependent upon it and are not designed to be massively multithreaded or parallel in nature, using all available CPU resources.

I'm just saying that the Rocket will eventually go the same way as all the other video and audio processing cards of years past, that are no longer necessary. In the near future, raw CPU power will render it obsolete. Of course, RED will probably give us a more powerful Rocket card at some point in the future. It seems it will definitely be necessary for future formats on the larger Monstro sensors.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

I would say that RR is still pretty good solution to work with R3D in the next 18 months...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I would say that RR is still pretty good solution to work with R3D in the next 18 months...

For sure! :thumbup1:

I won't be trading off my RED Rocket just yet. OTOH, when we get 20-core workstations (40 virtual cores) and 48GB+ RAM as common as 12~16GB is now, that Rocket isn't going to seem so special. Ahh.... progress...

I love the Rocket. But nothing lasts forever. I'm sure my kids will one day laugh at the thought of shooting "only 5K".

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

Is´t been out for some time now... anyone have real world experience with the new Mabook pro and premiere pro/After Effects? Can you easily edit short (30-90 sec) sequenses of Red footage on it? How slow/fast is it with fairly advanced compositions in AFX?

 

[D Fuller]

Is´t been out for some time now... anyone have real world experience with the new Mabook pro and premiere pro/After Effects? Can you easily edit short (30-90 sec) sequenses of Red footage on it? How slow/fast is it with fairly advanced compositions in AFX?

Given that I can edit spots (R3Ds) in PPro on my Core-2 MBP, I can't see how that would be a problem on the new MBP.