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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

AWESOME MX latitude test!

The transition is rugged, take a look at the tunnel interior shifting in value, it darkens a great deal as the vehicle leaves the tunnel: this has nothing to do with "lens flare", nor any other optical/sensor value: it is the product of a post move to accommodate the sunlight values. This might just be a product of a hasty post treatment, but let me put it this way: If finding the detail in the highlights affects the low values as drastically as what is going on here, I'd hesitate to call this an "awesome MX latitude test". Actually, I think the MX is better than this.
 
Bill Anderson said:
The transition is rugged, take a look at the tunnel interior shifting in value, it darkens a great deal as the vehicle leaves the tunnel: this has nothing to do with "lens flare", nor any other optical/sensor value: it is the product of a post move to accommodate the sunlight values. This might just be a product of a hasty post treatment, but let me put it this way: If finding the detail in the highlights affects the low values as drastically as what is going on here, I'd hesitate to call this an "awesome MX latitude test". Actually, I think the MX is better than this.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say this was a product of hasty post treatment at all. He's already shown he had the latitude to keep exposure in the tunnel throughout the whole shot, but by allowing it to go dark as the car exits the tunnel it shows exactly how different light levels were in the two environments.

He's not showcasing how well his color grading system handles power windows, he's showing the dynamic range of the MX.
 
Bill Anderson said:
The transition is rugged, take a look at the tunnel interior shifting in value, it darkens a great deal as the vehicle leaves the tunnel: this has nothing to do with "lens flare", nor any other optical/sensor value: it is the product of a post move to accommodate the sunlight values. This might just be a product of a hasty post treatment, but let me put it this way: If finding the detail in the highlights affects the low values as drastically as what is going on here, I'd hesitate to call this an "awesome MX latitude test". Actually, I think the MX is better than this.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying. The point I understood Mark to be saying was how well the R3D file stands up to post manipulation. I'm always impressed by his work and appreciate what he was showing here. He had a problem that wouldn't work in camera, so he chose an aperture of f/11 (to protect the outside highlights I presume while letting some blow a bit), and then was able to pull that much from the tunnel in post. It really is pretty remarkable seeing the original clip running side by side to the final version.

Not too sure what you would do to adjust for what you mention. The look is natural when the car exits the tunnel, the interior goes dark, as it should. I don't think this is an HDRx™ moment here as it would seem strange for the tunnel to have been more open upon the car's departure. What would you want to see improved here?
 
Fantastic demo Mark.
 
Bill Anderson said:
The transition is rugged, take a look at the tunnel interior shifting in value, it darkens a great deal as the vehicle leaves the tunnel: this has nothing to do with "lens flare", nor any other optical/sensor value: it is the product of a post move to accommodate the sunlight values. This might just be a product of a hasty post treatment, but let me put it this way: If finding the detail in the highlights affects the low values as drastically as what is going on here, I'd hesitate to call this an "awesome MX latitude test". Actually, I think the MX is better than this.
Click to expand...

What exactly is your point Bill? If you read what Mark has written, both in his post and in the text on the clip, you'll see that he's done the grade using keyframes in FCP on a ProRes file - hardly a sophisticated grading tool. He also states that there was more latitude in the R3D but that Rocketcine doesn't do keyframes.

Mark's put this up as a demonstration of just how Red MX already is - not as his grading reel. Seems some people are just here to throw stones...
 
Nicely done... this is a hard message to get across.

Jim
 
Mark, the "post manipulation" performance is exactly what I'm getting at; I don't think the tunnel (deep interior) suddenly losing all detail (to accommodate the highlight adjustment) looks "natural", nor do I think it the best example of MX's post latitude performance. Besides, you're substituting testing rigor for aesthetics.

He's not "showing the DR of the MX", not if holding the highlights means pushing the blacks off the face of the screen in order to do so, and all of this being facilitated by such a brief and abrupt scenario. One that might hopefully go unnoticed. Imagine this example on a big screen: that is a lot of tunnel area detail magically/forcefully disappearing. And, using the same parameters, consider that we now have to slowly leave the tunnel as someone walks out, gradually; and in order to accommodate the rather extreme contrast ratio, we are obliged to (suddenly) push the tunnel detail off the map. Yes there are ways to better treat this scenario, but I simply make the case to illustrate my point in this regard.

The MX is damned good, but this is stretching it to accommodate one very narrow scenario. Unlike the Epic tunnel test.
 
Shane, believe me, I'm not here to throw stones. My blood is as red as yours. If the post tools are 'crude', or there are certain post "skills" wanting, then I can cut some slack on this "awesome latitude test", but please forgive me for wanting nothing but the best when it comes to representing MX's abilities. I'm gonna play the outsider when it seems appropriate.
 
Just to be fair, the title of this thread is "AWESOME MX latitude test!" Not "AWESOME MX DR test." Not to speak for anyone, but I assume that what Mark is showing is the latitude of the sensor. The ability to push or pull it from over or under exposure back to an acceptable place. Not the Dynamic Range, which is the overall range of light values that the sensor can capture. I understand your argument, and you could certainly grade it another way if that was more pleasing or suitable to you. The point is that a very underexposed image can be brought back to a very usable level with this sensor. Great test.
 
Paris, you misunderstand my intentions, I am not interested in the grading, I am pointing out the price that is paid to hold the highlights in this very fleeting scenario.
Now this is wonderful news for tunnel shots, but, as far as this latitude test stands, that's about it. I still think that this example could be done to better reflect a more meaningful and sustainable range of scenarios. Does that seem so cockeyed?
 
You're asking for an HDRx test, not a test that shows what an MX'ed Red One is capable of latitude-wise. This test is the latter.
 
Mark,
Really great example of the amount of information available from the RED sensor & RAW files ( or should i say PRO RES files.....!!).
Very natural transition from the tunnel, beautiful grading......love it
I want my EPIC too......!!!
cheers
Mossy
 
Paul

Congrats on the fabulous looking Donna Hay Show on lifestyle Channel on Foxtel by the way. The look of this 3 camera Red shoot has raised the bar for anyone considering doing a food and lifestyle show from now on.
Well Done!

Cheers
wazza



Paul Moss said:
Mark,
Really great example of the amount of information available from the RED sensor & RAW files ( or should i say PRO RES files.....!!).
Very natural transition from the tunnel, beautiful grading......love it
I want my EPIC too......!!!
cheers
Mossy
Click to expand...
 
Bill Anderson said:
Imagine this example on a big screen: that is a lot of tunnel area detail magically/forcefully disappearing. And, using the same parameters, consider that we now have to slowly leave the tunnel as someone walks out, gradually; and in order to accommodate the rather extreme contrast ratio, we are obliged to (suddenly) push the tunnel detail off the map. Yes there are ways to better treat this scenario, but I simply make the case to illustrate my point in this regard.

The MX is damned good, but this is stretching it to accommodate one very narrow scenario. Unlike the Epic tunnel test.
Click to expand...

Bill, I understand your point, just disagree with it. Since the car IS leaving the tunnel rapidly, it would be normal for the contrast to change abruptly versus someone who is walking into the light. If that were the case, then there would be a longer transition and it would appear more subtle. I can see your observation, but continue to think that it is up to personal taste and preference as to when the transition would occur.

BTW, which Epic tunnel test are you talking about? I must have missed it on the thread.

And finally, I don't have a problem at all with someone playing devil's advocate.
 
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