Noob question: What type of video card do I need to online edit 4K footage?

[Bas Majzoub]

Hi all,

I have a G5 tower, quad core 2.5GHz, and am looking to add 4 more, though I'm pretty sure it's not enough to handle my 4K footage.

My guess is I'd need some kind of special video card, and since I'm more film oriented and trained, and not so much of technical guy when it comes to HD and digital video, I figured I'd post my question here.

Thank you!

PS Sorry if this is a redundant question :cheers2:

 

[Bas Majzoub]

Maybe a link to a previous post with the answer I'm looking for?

(I have a feeling it's so obvious, a simple search would do:attention9ha: :lol: )

 

[Craig Weeding]

Hi Bas

if you are planning to online edit 4K footage it takes a lot more then a video card and a G5.

If you are working with Quicktime ProRes 4444 files the data rate for a single stream is approx 1.5 Gb per second. To work in 4k 10bit dpx the data rates are more like 2.6Gb per second per stream.

If you are serious about 4K online editing recommend you contact Assimilate and checkout Scratch. This is a product designed for 4K online editing and finishing.

http://www.assimilateinc.com

Good luck with your project

Craig

 

[Shane Betts]

Hey Baz. Before you even start, you need a Mac Pro for Red footage. A G5 simply won't do.

 

[Ben Holmes]

The best question to ask is "why are you editing in 4K"? Although it's possible to finish in 4K for future distribution, most people edit in 1080 or 2K formats.

To do this you'll need an Intel Mac Pro (the G5 won't decode RED footage) and a good video output card, like the Kona (the Kona 3 does a lot of good scaling so you can view 2K timelines on a 1080p monitor) or Blackmagic cards.

You will most likely transcode your material to ProRes to edit, them re-link to your original R3D files using something like Clipfinder. This will allow you to grade RAW footage in Color - or send it to a professional system like Scratch or DaVinci. There are then a number of routes to a 4K master, like DCP output.

All of these workflows can be found here, or in video tutorials from the likes of Jay Kelley. I recommend you do a lot of reading, or spend some money training to do all this properly if you REALLY want a 4K finish.

If you want to end up with a 1080p or 2K master, the setup is relatively straightforward using FCP, Color and Clipfinder. You'll find numerous posts in the Apple forum here about this.

Ben

 

[Bas Majzoub]

Thanks for the replies guys, amazing! It's kind of disappointing that I can't do it using the G5, but I had a feeling this would be the case. I guess I have to pay an online editor to do the work

Just to clear the air a bit, I did the offline edit already using miniDV quality footage, and have exported an EDL. The final product will be in 1080, but my masters are 4K.

I will check out assimilateinc.com, and again thanks for all of those responses, I really appreciate it. This seems like a wonderful community!

Cheers!

 

[Shane Betts]

Scratch is plenty expensive Baz. Resolve is, I would suggest, at least Scratch's equal as a colour grader for much less and, depending on how many effects are involved, FCP or PP could do as 1080 finishing apps.

 

[Bas Majzoub]

Thank you Shane, I am somewhat (see: extremely) ignorant when it comes to video and digital and all that stuff, but the technology is really exciting. What exactly are Scratch/Resolve? What type of programs are they? Excuse my ignorance, and could google them I suppose, but what do they do exactly?

 

[Shane Betts]

Assuming it's a simple talking heads kinda show, with no effects or compositing involved, the two things you're going to need to do here are: a/colour grade and b/output the finished movie to whatever format is required (finishing).

I'm not personally familiar with Scratch but my understanding is it's a high-end grading and finishing app. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But it's not cheap. Davinci Resolve is a high-end colour grading application that has recently dropped in price from hundreds of thousands of dollars to a grand for the Mac software.

Now, if you go to Resolve, you'll need a finishing app. for titles, dissolves, varispeeds etc. If you're working to a 1080 finish, both FCP and Premiere Pro could well do that job (beware gamma errors with FCP but there are workarounds). If there is complex compositing involved then something else will be required. Again, assuming low budget and lots of time (that's the trade-off) Adobe After Effects could suffice.

Certainly, when it comes to Resolve or Scratch, there's a steep learning curve. Again, time vs money. If there's no time, make a deal with a post house to do the conform/grade/deliverables. If there's time and little cash (or you have time and want to build your skills), I'd go a Mac Pro with Resolve and the Adobe suite at the least. Add FCP in there too. Good luck!

 

[Bas Majzoub]

Those post-production houses are like mechanics, haven't been to one that I've yet to trust!

Ultimately, you are a 100% correct, it's a time vs money type of situation. Now, I do want to learn this stuff, this is why I'm interested in doing the online edit myself, but if it's going to cost the same to get the gear and software as it would cost if I went pro, then I might as well go to a professional online editor (I want to finish this project, so I can start the next one already).

I think I have a few phone calls to make.

 

[Shane Betts]

Hey Bas, a good place for you to start might be here

About halfway down Mark Toia discusses his own post path, using nothing more than RedCine X and FCP. Might be a good next step for you.

 

[Frank Glencairn]

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but
Premiere CS5 with a good Nvida card works like a charm.

No transcoding whatsoever.
Just throw the R3D files at the timeline and start editing in realtime.

You can make that work on a fast and beefy Mac,
but if you buy a PC you only spend half of the money for the same components.

Frank

 

[Bas Majzoub]

^^^ Thanks!

Hey Bas, a good place for you to start might be here

About halfway down Mark Toia discusses his own post path, using nothing more than RedCine X and FCP. Might be a good next step for you.

Wow, just read that thread, that Mark character seems like my kind of people :biggrin:

And post-production houses are all crooks, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one disenfranchised by their shady practices.

 

[Ben Holmes]

Good news: you can do all this with an Intel Mac and a copy of FCS. Bad news: Owning Color doesn't make you a Colorist. There's a reason those guys are the highest paid people in most post houses. It's an art and a science.

Still - I'm all for self improvement, so if you have the time, and use a little online or DVD training, you can get amazing results. It'll just take a little longer.

 

[Bas Majzoub]

Good news: you can do all this with an Intel Mac and a copy of FCS. Bad news: Owning Color doesn't make you a Colorist. There's a reason those guys are the highest paid people in most post houses. It's an art and a science.

Still - I'm all for self improvement, so if you have the time, and use a little online or DVD training, you can get amazing results. It'll just take a little longer.

How can I find out if my mac is Intel/could I upgrade it to one?

As far as being a colorist, well, there's not much I want to change, just make things match, basic stuff (I've done it a bit using FCP, and with trial and error, I think I should be ok, since I have an okay understanding of colour, and really don't need to do too much).

Having said that, those colorists are indeed a special breed, I've worked with one using a DI, and this lady was like a wizard! (it was like magic, how fast she made my money disappear!)

 

[M Most]

And post-production houses are all crooks, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one disenfranchised by their shady practices.

That is the single biggest load of crap I think I've ever read here. I don't know where you are, who you've dealt with, or what you do, but if you really believe that I think you need to get out a bit more and visit the major (and not so major) facilities that perform post production chores on just about everything you see on either a television screen or a theater screen. Most post facilities at that level consist of the highest level talent, equipment, and engineering in the industry, and they're not out to cheat, they're out to help. And they do, every day. If you walk in with the attitude you've already expressed here, I'm not surprised that you might be treated a bit differently than you would if you walked in looking for a talented partner to help you make your project the best it can be and create deliverables that are technically sound for you.

It's your choice.

 

[Stephen Strangways]

How can I find out if my mac is Intel/could I upgrade it to one?

If the case is silver, it could be a G5 (PowerPC, no good for modern software) or it could be a Mac Pro (Intel, perfect.) A lot of people confuse them because they look almost identical. Click on the Apple logo in the upper-left corner, then on "About this Mac" and it will tell you exactly what it is.

If it's a PowerPC G5, there is no way to upgrade it. It will have to be replaced.

 

[Daniel Reifenberger]

How can I find out if my mac is Intel/could I upgrade it to one?

The G5 system is incompatible with an Intel processor, so you will not be able to upgrade.

To identify a G5 vs. Intel Mac Tower look at the front: If there is one optical drive bay it is a G5, if there are two it is an Intel Mac Pro.

Cheers,
Dan

 

[Bas Majzoub]

I know about the upper left corner apple thingie, so ya, if it's supposed to be there, then it's not Intel

That is the single biggest load of crap I think I've ever read here. I don't know where you are, who you've dealt with, or what you do, but if you really believe that I think you need to get out a bit more and visit the major (and not so major) facilities that perform post production chores on just about everything you see on either a television screen or a theater screen. Most post facilities at that level consist of the highest level talent, equipment, and engineering in the industry, and they're not out to cheat, they're out to help. And they do, every day. If you walk in with the attitude you've already expressed here, I'm not surprised that you might be treated a bit differently than you would if you walked in looking for a talented partner to help you make your project the best it can be and create deliverables that are technically sound for you.

It's your choice.

My experience with Creative Post was horrendous! I paid them $6,000, and not only were they treating me like I was an idiot, but kept screwing up the transfer, all the while acting rude as heck! I'm a cheerful guy with a curious spirit, so I went happy to be going through this process, so my attitude was not the issue, the fact that I'm a nobody independent film-maker was. The online editor had this holier than thou attitude towards me, every question I had was met with sarcastic response and rolled eyes! On top of that, the first batch of tapes and DVDs I got had a sound glitch on them, like somebody pulling a plug, so I went back there telling them, hey there's a problem with the sound (politely mind you), and they kept saying 'impossible, it must a problem with the soundtrack you gave us, if we have to do it again, you have to pay again!' etc, frikin rude and condescending like crazy. Finally after proving to them that it was a mistake on their end, they agreed to fix it. Good, right? Wrong. I get the tapes and the DVDs, and what do I find? A whole scene in the middle of the film is repeated twice!!! WTF!!! So I had to go back there again (my own precious time wasted), and the same story, they wouldn't believe me, how it must (again!) be my fault! Anyways, after a bunch hoorah, they watch the disk and realize that it's their technician's fault, so they reluctantly agree to fix it. Pretty crazy, right? Yup, but at least the ordeal was over. Only it wasn't! I paid Tattersal Sound good money to do a 5.1 mix of the sound. Guess what, I get the disks and tapes back, and THERE IS SOUND MISSING! So for a third effing time, I had to go through the same ugly process, argue with them, being looked at/treated like I'm an idiot, for them to finally agree to fix it FOR THE THIRD TIME! Did I mention that at the time I lived an hour and half away from their location? Ya, major waste of time, and they didn't offer me any form of discount or anything like that. For $6,000, I expect better quality work and service!

The major post-production houses might have some of the most technically skilled individuals in the industry, but unless you are a major production or director/producer, they just don't care about you or your project, and will do the bare minimum. Guess what, I might be a nobody, but I work my butt off to get my films done with thousands of dollars and man hours invested, so I don't need nor appreciate some big shot 'technician' to treat me like an ignorant farmer because the way I label my footage is not to their liking!

/rant. Sorry guys, that brought back a lot of angry emotions! Like mechanics I tells ya!

 

[Ben Brainerd]

The major post-production houses might have some of the most technically skilled individuals in the industry, but unless you are a major production or director/producer, they just don't care about you or your project, and will do the bare minimum. Guess what, I might be a nobody, but I work my butt off to get my films done with thousands of dollars and man hours invested, so I don't need nor appreciate some big shot 'technician' to treat me like an ignorant farmer because the way I label my footage is not to their liking!

/rant. Sorry guys, that brought back a lot of angry emotions! Like mechanics I tells ya!

Yikes. I can understand your concern if that's the experience you had. That said, don't judge all post houses by one bad experience. To carry your mechanic metaphor a step further, you've got to shop around. Just like not every mechanic is going to be good at fixing your particular car, not every post house is going to fit your particular project. Sit down and talk with a few of them, ask to meet their techs, have them give you their tech sheet (Called different things, but any good post house will give you a sheet with their preferred technical specifications), see the facility. A *good* post house shouldn't have any problems with you getting to know them before handing over your money and project. If they just say "pay up", you're probably in for a wild ride and should look elsewhere.