ProRes or ProResHQ? -a question for a colorist.

[Vince Sweeney]

Looking for opinions on recording to ProRes, or the HQ version (using a KiPro) for a indie feature finishing to 1080p. I'd normally go for the highest quality possible on a given system but we are using a new mini KiPro mounted to the camera with 32gb cards and have to be fairly mobile with a micro crew. The more I predict how the 29 days will go, I think it'll end up being a big pain to off-load as much because of using HQ. We just can't afford to trade up to 64bg cards on top of everything else. Is there really enough of a difference to bother with HQ? We aren't doing green screen work, if that changes anything.

The opinions in the research I have done, and the few people I've been able to ask, seems to be all over the place as to whether it really matters.

Thanks.

 

[Bruce Ingram]

My advice, given my experience with ProRes when it comes to grading, if you plan on doing very heavy color treatments go with HQ. If you plan on sticking with the look in camera for the most part and will likely only be doing balancing and some minor tweaks, I would feel safe using the standard.

 

[Tom.Wong]

8 bit vs 10 bit. it matters, a lot

shoot 10 bit, the color grading will give you more flexibility. if you have to do multiple passes of transcoding and re transcoding 10 bit will hold up better. it's a no brainer. feature film, you want to shoot at your highest quality possible. you have no idea where it's gonna end up, you'll trap yourself shooting at in normal pro res.

but if you're shooting on RED, i wouldn't recommend shooting on ki pro. it's only a 720p SDI, and a half debayer at that. you'll lose even more quality that way.

 

[Jim Hoffman]

Well isn't the reds live clean feed only 720?

 

[M Most]

8 bit vs 10 bit. it matters, a lot

shoot 10 bit, the color grading will give you more flexibility. if you have to do multiple passes of transcoding and re transcoding 10 bit will hold up better.

Both flavors of ProRes (ProRes and ProRes HQ) are 10 bit. For color grading, quite frankly, there's little difference. There's more of a difference if you're doing visual effects work and having to deal with matte extractions.

 

[Mike Prevette]

Are you saying your recording the live feed from the camera and expecting to edit that??

 

[Michael.Romanyshyn]

Go with HQ unless your storage space is limited. You will not be sorry.

 

[Jamie Metzger]

Vince,

It seems like you want to use the Kipro to create Prores 422HQ files for Online, is this true?

If so, it won't work. For obvious reasons, the red doesn't have a clean feed out, and it is 720P. You can try to use the KiPro to record the output into ProResLT and send timecode to the Mini. There is a record flag in the SDI meta data that should start/stop the mini when you record on the RED, but I haven't tested this myself.

 

[Vince Sweeney]

Its not on a red. Clean 1080 10bit via SDI will give a great online file to work with.

Thanks Mike. I keep getting told the same thing; if we we're doing lots of FX, stick with HQ, otherwise it's a waste. Although if Bruce has seen otherwise, I have to wonder again. I'll do some down and dirty tests on my own FCP system to see what happens... its all we'll have access to for testing unfortunately.

Thanks.

 

[Ben Brainerd]

As a Colorist, I have to admit a preference for HQ. Does it *REALLY* make that much of a difference? No, not really. But I always prefer the best possible source material.

If you think you're going to have serious space issues, you should be able to get decent results out of standard ProRes. (Assuming, of course, that you're not trying to record RED's 720 output, which you say you're not)

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a "waste" to record HQ. It depends on a lot of factors. Deliverable, post pipeline, etc.

 

[Ben Holmes]

Some pretty rigourous actual tests prove that at 1080p, ProRes HQ is a waste of time - there is no perceivable quality difference, even in heavy grading. At 2K, you may see the difference between these two settings, but as Mr. Most says, they're both 10-bit.

My advice - don't believe people who say they can see a difference - I prefer to believe the evidence. (PS - don't ask me where to find it, I can't remember - I think it might have been done by Gary Adcock or one of the other Cow leaders).

 

[Vince Sweeney]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll follow up if I run into anything that shows a concrete difference.

 

[Bruce Ingram]

Vince - M is correct, and when I say heavy color treatments, I do refer to situations that will require masking, color selections, etc. Things that I have experienced a quality difference between standard and HQ. While not huge differences, they are enough that both my preference for having the most I can work with and my Director/DP's critical eye would make me choose the HQ.

But, again, if you are doing more straight forward color treatments I would be comfortable with the standard.

 

[Alex MacLean]

ProRes HQ. Even though its not true 10bit...