RED celebrates Sony...

[Dan Kanes]

Ha!

Love that story Rob.

I can easily "Fake" alexa footage with an R1MX too in RCX...LOL.

 

[Nikola Stefanovic]

As a colorist I watch every day all kind of different footages filmed with various formats: 5D, RED MX, Alexa, Phantom, 35mm, 16mm and SRW9000-PL (these days), and I really must admit that Alexa produce best looking images for me (monitoring everything in 1080p on 10 bit LED, high-end plasma and referent CRT). Also, when you watch edited and graded shots from Red, Phantom and Alexa mixed in one piece, you don't have clue what's coming from where.

I think that HD standard for TV is somewhere on the middle of his life but 1080p is definitely todays universal delivery choice for TV, web and digital cinema. 4K is maybe future, but before that we need higher frame rates and better color reproduction, resolution comes at the end.
Regarding Sony and 16:8:8: they want us to pay attention on "anamorphic" chroma sampling.

 

[Eric Lange]

It really doesn't matter when it happens, just that it will... that's the point. If you shot 1080p, that is not available for a true 4K release or re-release. Film... no problem.

Jim

I see what you are saying now. I’m being a bit slow on the uptake.

What you are saying is that 4K IS “backwards compatible” and FUTURE PROOF all at the same time.

So, if you are going to invest many millions of dollars on creating let’s say a sitcom, then in essence you protect or greatly extend the lifetime of your investment if you shoot 4k to begin with. Financially, I guess the logic is sound as the extra investment in 4k is negligible compared to the total cost of production and distribution, and yet 4k can greatly extend the utility of the media content/product far into the future.


By extension what you might say is that it would be stupid to NOT shoot 4k unless you had a really good reason not to.

And I guess also by extension, for commercial media, by what you say you either shoot 4k or film and nothing else.


I can’t tell you the number of times that we had wished that something was created at a far higher resolution and dynamic range to begin with to make for far more efficient or better use of media for re-release and re-working. This applies to 2d, still, dynamic, and 3d and s-3d data sets.


A rather unusual and spectacular version of this is with unmanned planetary exploration and spaceflight. If we were able to fly instruments and cameras of sufficient quality, capability and resolution in the 1960 and 70s and 80’s in the first place, then we would not be spending many billions of dollars on repeated missions and flights just to get better pictures of Mars. Some things are simply not repeatable to get a better image a second time.


If there is one thing that twenty two years of digital imaging has taught me; it’s that if you are doing something worthwhile it ALWAYS pays to get the best possible imaging you can possibly afford at the time, no matter how painful it seems at the time to wrestle with all that data. Never once did we look back and say, “man we imaged that at too higher res” or “wow we really shouldn’t have captured all that data!”. The fact that a viable 4k practical option is offered at an amazing price is simply fantastic.


You lucky people…

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Dj Joofa]

The issue, the way I see it, is that Red had a wonderful idea. But poor execution has led sleeping competitors to close the gap, if not exceed it. It is good to see a handful of Epics being shipped, but this is rather lacking performance. I'm interested in knowing why Red had had poor production and manufacturing planning. This is not an expected behavior from a company that like to bid itself as a leader in this area.

Red still has a chance among competition but production must ramp up without let down in quality. Currently, the way Epics are being handed out it seems more like a mom and pop operation.

Sincerely,

Joofa

 

[Eric Lange]

The issue, the way I see it, is that Red had a wonderful idea. But poor execution has led sleeping competitors to close the gap, if not exceed it. It is good to see a handful of Epics being shipped, but this is rather lacking performance. I'm interested in knowing why Red had had poor production and manufacturing planning. This is not an expected behavior from a company that like to bid itself as a leader in this area.

Red still has a chance among competition but production must ramp up without let down in quality. Currently, the way Epics are being handed out it seems more like a mom and pop operation.

Sincerely,

Joofa

Joofa man...(or whatever your real name is)

I have an eye in on a couple of major productions starting up at PineWood, The EPIC is absolutely the crucial element, and I don’t hear ANYBODY complaining. They understand what EPIC brings.

Talk about looking a gift’ horse in the mouth!

 

[Erik Franzén]

The issue, the way I see it, is that Red had a wonderful idea. But poor execution has led sleeping competitors to close the gap, if not exceed it. It is good to see a handful of Epics being shipped, but this is rather lacking performance. I'm interested in knowing why Red had had poor production and manufacturing planning. This is not an expected behavior from a company that like to bid itself as a leader in this area.

Red still has a chance among competition but production must ramp up without let down in quality. Currently, the way Epics are being handed out it seems more like a mom and pop operation.

Sincerely,

Joofa

Umm, well. You know. EPIC is incredibly advanced. RED can hardly start production "for real" until they have it completely fixed - hence why EPIC-Xtreme is not shipping but EPIC-Machined is. Obviously EPIC-M are the frontline, nowhere near production ramp-up.
But even in limited quantities, EPIC is way ahead of anything announced. So, I don't see this competition you seem to be assuming is going to overtake them...

 

[Eric Lange]

The issue, the way I see it, is that Red had a wonderful idea. But poor execution has led sleeping competitors to close the gap, if not exceed it. It is good to see a handful of Epics being shipped, but this is rather lacking performance. I'm interested in knowing why Red had had poor production and manufacturing planning. This is not an expected behavior from a company that like to bid itself as a leader in this area.

Red still has a chance among competition but production must ramp up without let down in quality. Currently, the way Epics are being handed out it seems more like a mom and pop operation.

Sincerely,

Joofa

Also If you have been paying attention to what has been going on globally especially in the manufacturing communities overseas, it’s an absolute miracle that they have been able to roll anything out at all considering the number of agreements at the very last minute that have had to be crumpled up into a ball and thrown over the shoulder. The fact that the guys at RED and Jim etc. were able to take control and roll things out from US soil and stay on target given the inherent uncertainties IS a major achievement I think…

 

[shashbugu]

The issue, the way I see it, is that Red had a wonderful idea. But poor execution has led sleeping competitors to close the gap, if not exceed it. It is good to see a handful of Epics being shipped, but this is rather lacking performance. I'm interested in knowing why Red had had poor production and manufacturing planning. This is not an expected behavior from a company that like to bid itself as a leader in this area.

Red still has a chance among competition but production must ramp up without let down in quality. Currently, the way Epics are being handed out it seems more like a mom and pop operation.

Sincerely,

Joofa

I am not sure where this is coming from.

Jim has always praised all camera manufacturers for stepping into the game to produce film like resolution digital cameras. The company policy has been consistent and I quote, "we will not release future cameras until we are 100% happy with the goals we have set for ourselves". As a consumer I will be pretty happy with a company that has the courtesy to keep customers informed with the progress of their products. I would rather deal with a mom and pop company, whose CEO would respond to a request at 2:am at night. Now the policies have only been made due to the issues and bad press involved in the early RED builds. As we speak right now the reports from epic-M owners and testers have been beyond positive. Its a solid robust working camera.

 

[Dj Joofa]

Eric, it is good to have a US-based production to create some local jobs, but what "US soil"? I think Red must ship back Jarred Land, Graeme Nattress, and possibly many others whose names I don't know, to their respective countries, to qualify as a "US product".

I know that setbacks happen in manufacturing and products are always late for various reasons at any regular technical company. But, I just gave my honest advice. I'm not saying that Red is going to fail anytime soon. That will be a loss, seriously. Just saying that my impression of execution and delivery by Red is lacking. It is just my personal opinion, which could be wrong, but it is just my opinion.

Sincerely,

Joofa

 

[Andrew M.]

It is easy to criticise performance of the company X or Y without offering some alternative better solution. Usually we give the managing job position to the people that criticise very same job.

We like constructive young and fresh criticism if accompanied by alternative solution advice.

Joofa, do you think you would do better if you manage the production of EPIC?

How many companies did you manage or started in the past?
We have openings for aggressive managers with unique ideas. We pay 6 digit salaries.

Minimum requirements, two successfully started or managed businesses of 100M or more in last 15 years.

Send me PM if qualified.

 

[Eric Lange]

It is easy to criticise performance of the company X or Y without offering some alternative better solution. Usually we give the managing job position to the people that criticise very same job.

We like constructive young and fresh criticism if accompanied by alternative solution advice.

Joofa, do you think you would do better if you manage the production of EPIC?

How many companies did you manage or started in the past?
We have openings for aggressive managers with unique ideas. We pay 6 digit salaries.

Minimum requirements, two successfully started or managed businesses of 100M or more in last 15 years.

Send me PM if qualified.

Andrew, that’s funny…( I like that),

Joofa man… sometimes you really crack me up, and sometime I honestly don’t know (if you will pardon a wonderful British expression) whether you are “taking the piss…” or not?

Recently a lot of rather concerned people have been telling me ALL about “Astro-turfing” on the web. Sometimes I think you are Jim Jannard (in disguise) just messing with us to draw out the latent “fanboy” that we didn’t know we had in us!

Everybody IS entitled to their opinion.

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Michael Olsen]

To be fair, I think the way cameras are being released is fundamentally changing. It seems like now digital cinema cameras are available in small batches first, then a larger incomplete batch, and then as cameras continue to ship the full capabilities of the camera are made functional.

RED ONE certainly had an unorthodox release/upgrade cycle, and RED was very upfront about the fact that they were by no means shipping a finished camera. They added features and upgrades as they were able, resulting, finally, in a very capable M-X.

ARRI had a similar (though much shorter) release with the Alexa, handing a very rough version out to a few DPs, then shipping more. But even those weren't complete - no playback, limited options, no RAW, etc. Only now are gaps being filled in.

The Sony F3 was similar. Early versions went out to testers with rough firmware. As shipping ramped up, more people got it in their hands. And now - some time after initially shipping - the full firmware, featuring S-log and dual-link HD-SDI is available (for a price).

I expect much the same will be true for Epic. We've seen Epic-Ms arriving to end-users at an increasingly rapid pace, and we have learned that not all the firmware is enabled and that software is still being finalized. I expect that as the cameras roll off the line, features will continue to be added.

And in regards to being late or being behind the power curve - RED is actually shipping a camera that other companies have just begun to announce that they are building. They may be behind their own projections, but RED is still leading the industry in my opinion.

 

[Andrew M.]

Eric, don’t take me wrong. I really like constructive criticism.

But anybody that criticise someone should offer an alternative solution or better advice.

Otherwise it is just whining, droning and complaining without any contribution to the solution and advancement of the project.

Nothing is better than the button “find more posts by the user” to realise how much contribution we are getting here.

 

[Dj Joofa]

Andrew,

Red has created an advanced and great camera. There is no doubt it. I think both of us agree on this.

I am not sure if "aggressive managers" are always the best managers. Many time they are among those with limited exposure to technical issues. OTOH, good technical skills are no guarantee for good managers. Some of my own managers that I have had in the past were not aggressive in style, used to underpromise but overdeliver, and created a congenial working environment.

Sincerely,

Joofa

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Sorry, but it is a little crazy to criticize the business practices and capabilities of a man who has made a major fortune, from scratch, in... uh, BUSINESS. Maybe DJ Joofa's real name is Bill Gates. If so, then perhaps he can criticize. Otherwise... well... in this case, silence is golden. :thumbdown:

 

[Andrew M.]

Position for a managers are already filled in, however it is difficult to find successful aggressive managers.

I wonder why there is such a shortage of them.

I guess in the recession times, they are busy working and capitalizing on bit lower cost of US labour.

 

[David Dennis]

Jim, I don't doubt that 4K distribution will happen, just that YouTube might not be the company that does it. So no, I'm not taking your bet .

About Joofa's comments ...

I think Jim and his team are the first to admit their ability to physically produce the wonderful products they design and engineer so well has been a problem for the company.

You might remember a post from Jim saying that he just hired a production guy from Oakley, someone he's had his eye on for a long time, who could not be hired earlier thanks to a non-compete agreement.

I don't know if you've noticed this, but since roughly that time, Epic-Ms have been flying out to customers - they have almost 200 out now, if not a few more.

If my memory serves, that's actually significantly faster than RED ONEs were coming out at first. I think they sent out 25 and then it took a long time to get to the others.

The early reviews are in, and EPIC customers just love EPIC-M. I think most RED customers are going to hang in there. One amazing thing I've noticed during all the product shortages is that once they get their cameras, the complaints stop as though someone pulled a giant switch . People love RED products, production delays or no.

D

 

[Dj Joofa]

Terry, kindly don't take it out on me. I'm not privy to the problems being faced by Red, so of course I'm not in the best position for an assessment. I just based my opinion on some external factors that are public and known to everybody, including the timeframe (5 years) to develop something like Red camera with the type of resources they have. How difficult is it to take it as my personal opinion, with which you don't necessarily have to agree, with the understanding that I could be wrong?

Andrew, I don't know what you are after? I can only give technical opinions here. I am not in a position to go shoot with a Red camera and comment on the experience, which many other Redusers are already doing here to great benefit of others.

Sincerely,

Joofa

 

[Nik Harper]

The issue, the way I see it, is that Red had a wonderful idea. But poor execution has led sleeping competitors to close the gap, if not exceed it. It is good to see a handful of Epics being shipped, but this is rather lacking performance. I'm interested in knowing why Red had had poor production and manufacturing planning. This is not an expected behavior from a company that like to bid itself as a leader in this area.

Red still has a chance among competition but production must ramp up without let down in quality. Currently, the way Epics are being handed out it seems more like a mom and pop operation.

Sincerely,

Joofa

Just because Red let's us in on this early info and releases to their loyal customers, doesn't mean that they had poor production planning. This just means that we're seeing something that never happens with other companies, because other companies are not this close to their customers. I think Red cares a little more than the other companies...

 

[shashbugu]

It is easy to criticise performance of the company X or Y without offering some alternative better solution. Usually we give the managing job position to the people that criticise very same job.

We like constructive young and fresh criticism if accompanied by alternative solution advice.

Joofa, do you think you would do better if you manage the production of EPIC?

How many companies did you manage or started in the past?
We have openings for aggressive managers with unique ideas. We pay 6 digit salaries.

Minimum requirements, two successfully started or managed businesses of 100M or more in last 15 years.

Send me PM if qualified.

Ha ha ha, LOL