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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED celebrates Sony...

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Max Fischer said:
But the big question to me is what this will do to the Alexa (I don't have one). Now it's not just RED vs. Arri. If 4K truly becomes the standard that all others adopt, I'm afraid that the $80K Alexa will quickly become obsolete....
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In the current television pilot season, that "soon to be obsolete" Alexa is shaping up as the most popular camera - by far, and including Red, Sony, and everyone else - on single camera style pilots. Out of about 12 pilots the company I currently work for is participating in, two are on Red, and all of the others - all of them - are on Alexa, all recording ProRes. And the company I work for is one that is specifically known for its work with Red. The lesson one might want to take from that is that numbers are one thing, but simplicity and great images are what is currently selling, at least in network level production. That's not a knock on Red or anyone else, but it is at least in part a good explanation for the very wide popularity of the Alexa this pilot season.
 
It was meant just as a pre-emptive strike at the unavoidable blabbre coming up from all kinds of enthusiasts...

I kinda like to watch those fights, though... And pull up a chart + Some lit scenes... with MP's on different cameras and look at what's happening, all the way into online.

So far it's hard to beat RED after the image is captured...
 
It's ironic that one of Sony's tentpole releases for 2012 is being shot on your cameras.
 
M Most said:
In the current television pilot season, that "soon to be obsolete" Alexa is shaping up as the most popular camera - by far, and including Red, Sony, and everyone else - on single camera style pilots. Out of about 12 pilots the company I currently work for is participating in, two are on Red, and all of the others - all of them - are on Alexa, all recording ProRes. And the company I work for is one that is specifically known for its work with Red. The lesson one might want to take from that is that numbers are one thing, but simplicity and great images are what is currently selling, at least in network level production. That's not a knock on Red or anyone else, but it is at least in part a good explanation for the very wide popularity of the Alexa this pilot season.
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There is room for many cameras.

For the non-TV world, +2k is definitively a good thing. But the cam is only one part of the chain. I watched True Grit projected in 2k in a really large theatre the other day, and that was about the largest TV experience I've ever had... 2k for that application was not really good. But even though the projectors and servers are moving rapidly towards 4k around here, the workflows and post are lagging quite a bit.

Where I currently work (national broadcast drama), we enjoy the strong points of RED quite a lot, but I have no hard time seeing that for many productions, Alexas strong points may be of more importance. The hard thing right now, is that you want all the good sides of both systems, but cannot have it. Yet.

There are often a couple of less rational reasons in there too, but Arri is not the only cameracompany with fans.

The two (currently generally available) cameras have unique strong points. You have to decide which are more important to you.
 
I'm blue in the face saying this... but the near future of TV is 4K... in the home. Networks like to show reruns and resell old shows. There is the collision.

Jim
 
Sam Eilertsen said:
Arri seems to have doubled down on 1080p. If they announce a 4K camera with the Alexa still barely out the door, a lot of people will be unhappy.
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My 2c is that you won't have to wait for too long for the announcement. The Alexas will get time to ROI themselves before something like that is delivered, though...
 
Jannard said:
I'm blue in the face saying this... but the near future of TV is 4K... in the home. Networks like to show reruns and resell old shows. There is the collision.

Jim
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I don't know Jannard... I would tend to put my chips on what you say will happen, but 4k theaters and 1080 home entertainment feels right. At least for the next 5 years or so.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
I don't know Jannard... I would tend to put my chips on what you say will happen, but 4k theaters and 1080 home entertainment feels right. At least for the next 5 years or so.
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How do you explain the 4K home displays lined up by every major player waiting in the wings? 4K YouTube?

Jim
 
Roberto, Sony, Panasonic, JVC and on an on make their $ on the DISPLAY side of the equation... this year its 3D enabled TV's are all the rave. Next year will be 4K TV's and in 2 - 3 years the prices will start dropping as HD TV's are now. I mean a $5000 3D displays last year doesn't look 1/2 as good as the under $2000 3D displays shipping this year.

Consumers are now educated - they know that 1080P means high definition. They will certainly understand 4K will mean ULTRA HIGH DEF, the utmost quality in the home.

It may take 4 to 5 years for mainstream Americans to buy 4K TV's enmasse, but 1080P does NOT feel right once you see 4K. Anymore than SD felt right when you saw HD
 
Jannard said:
How do you explain the 4K home displays lined up by every major player waiting in the wings? 4K YouTube?

Jim
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Not too hard...

Broadcast through the web (downloaded or streamed) will need some edge and added value to overcome traditional broadcast.

I don't think Sony et all are rolling out 1080 TV's and concluding:
We're done. No more TV's needed, ever.

I do think it will have to come in the "bought" segment first, whether that's bought over the web or on "real" media.

The big obstacle these days will be to find 4k mastered media and to give the 4k finishing pipeline enough ease/economical value for it to be credible.

Some color-coded company has had significant success with 4k imagery and pipelines.

I do think that one should remember VHS vs Beta, mp3 vs HighDef 24-bit DVD audio, though when placing ones bets.

On the other hand, the ones behind RedRay codec/distribution concept seem to have remembered exactly those lessons...

Put on your hard hat, look out for sharp curves, and have fun while the race unfolds. Try to hang on to the highest quality you can to cover all bases.

Cheers!

G
 
I'm sure hoping for set-top/laptop Red Ray!

Jim, you didn't need Sony to vindicate your desire for 4k, you have decades of film that JUSTIFIED the need for 4K digital acquisition...and you guys actually did something about it.

What RED is pushing...4K DELIVERY...everywhere, is fantastic.

My last trip to a movie theatre was to see Inception. The quality of the delivery was embarrassingly poor. Worse than a bad download dvd rip; despite being shot on 35/65/Vista.

"The Web" is the new "Broadcast".

"The Web" is the "New Theatre". (Nuevo Teatro?)
 
JD Holloway said:
"The Web" is the "New Theatre". (Nuevo Teatro?)
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Even though I fear you're right, I hope you're wrong...

Sometyhing of the cinematic experience is definitely connected to the many people sharing it...

If you're talking deliverypipelines, however, I'm all with you!
 
Jannard said:
How do you explain the 4K home displays lined up by every major player waiting in the wings? 4K YouTube?

Jim
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When it happens, it'll happen 'fast' but I still can't get 99% of TV programs in 1080p let alone lightly compressed 1080p over the web.

I'll be more inclined to believe 4k is imminent in the home when 1080p finally makes it into the home in force.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Even though I fear you're right, I hope you're wrong...

Sometyhing of the cinematic experience is definitely connected to the many people sharing it...

If you're talking deliverypipelines, however, I'm all with you!
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I very much agree. The last film I saw in a theatre (Dogtooth...) was fantastic, if only because the shared (indescribable) experience. The film itself was technically poor but ...artful... and memorable (even if I felt like I needed a shower after).

I collect music, but love live performances too, if only for the collective shared experience. There is room for both.

I, for one, welcome our 4K "Masters".
 
I am all for it. Give me a 70" 4k TV and I'll sit as close to it as necessary to get the most out of it. Not sure how many people feel like changing their TVs again, but once they are available and priced as HD was when it rolled out, it will probably be adopted at a similar pace so long as distribution is available.

I have said it before, maybe that's where Red will get their BIG financial break, licensing Red Ray technology for consumer receivers, making current broadcast infrastructure last a little longer.

I still want the theater to have something on TVs, something technical that is, a spec. I mean something aside from the dark room (turn off your lights), killer sound (you can get very decent setups), acoustically designed rooms (only the true hard-core audiophiles will), and perhaps the most important theater factor which is the social element. I just don't want the theater to slowly go "out of style". The social element will never go away though...

:putting chips where Jannard put his:
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
When it happens, it'll happen 'fast' but I still can't get 99% of TV programs in 1080p let alone lightly compressed 1080p over the web.

I'll be more inclined to believe 4k is imminent in the home when 1080p finally makes it into the home in force.
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But did we have 720p in the home in force before we switched to 1080p? Honestly things are moving so fast these days, things in the process of being accepted or installed into the delivery system the next big thing comes in and takes it out. With the current changes in technology I can see this happening if done right and as always if the price is right.

to a clear and well defined future!
 
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