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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How do you guys pull focus ?

I think that there's a true value to taking measurements, making marks and using them to pull focus like we did shooting film however we make marks on a regular basis by doubling in on the sensor and making marks. It saves time and delivers sharp images as well but it's not ideal for every shot. I try to work with the same AC on a regular basis so there's some synergy between us and we communicate a lot. We talk about every shot we make and know what's expected as far as focus, when and where thru out the shot. We use a Bartech wireless follow focus and it works well for us. Cine lenses are definitely easier to pull focus with but we use both and the Bartech offers solutions for still lenses and makes them a little easier to use. We are all bout doing what works and takes up the least amount of time. There are times where we pull out the measuring tape and times we pull from the monitor or doubling in on the sensor. I don't really worry if the process is unorthodox, if it works, it works. Taking advantage of the RED and upcoming EPIC are wonderful tools that have changed much of the process so it's ok with me that some other processes have changed as well.
 
We do both. . .

On dolly shots, we'll have the track taped and focus pulled to each spot along its length.

On shots where there is a lot of movement, we just got by the AC's/camera op's eye.

We actually pull the focus using the Birger mount/Impero combination, and it works very well. The ability to change the ratio up or down is a big plus when using still lenses like the Canons.

Stephen
 
Stefan Antonescu said:
1. What do you guys prefer ? Measuring with a tape or just a quick eye-focusing on the monitor.
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For me it's tape (the good ol' classic soft one, that is) for most situations.

2. Is it MUCH easier to pulling focus with cine lenses rather than with still lenses ?
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Yes, it is, IMHO. That doesn't mean you cannot do a good job with still lenses, but cine lenses are designed for that. I don't think you'll find any assistant who prefers a Canon still lens to, say, a Cooke or Master Prime .
 
Stefan Antonescu said:
2. Is it MUCH easier to pulling focus with cine lenses rather than with still lenses ?
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The big thing about cine lenses is that the throws on the focus are MUCH longer than still lenses. Meaning you can very easily let's say, follow someone walking from far away straight to camera, because the adjustments in focus are so gradual and natural.

on still lenses the focus throws are short, because you don't need long focus throws for stills. Mark A to mark B might a small adjustment for example in focus for example.

a cine lens you can do a gradual adjustment in focus with a longer turn of the follow focus you you can gradually get there nice and slow without missing your marks.

on a still lens the throw might be so short you'll have a difficult time finding that micro adjustment you need to keep the focus on the subject. so you'll either miss your mark, or have to make it a sharp pull which makes the focus adjustment obvious.

not to say it can't be done with still lenses, saying it's just that much harder. and on sets where time is money and money is time, as good as your AC will be, using cine lenses to speed up your day and hitting those marks every take is worth a lot more than saving money and using still glass.
 
I pull focus occasionally, and I find that staring at the monitor doesnt give me a frame of reference as to the distance of the subject from the camera. I look at the monitor to check myself, but I also keep an eye on the movement (staring down the barrel of the lens when I can) to gauge the distance.
 
Stefan Antonescu said:
1. What do you guys prefer ? Measuring with a tape or just a quick eye-focusing on the monitor.
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Both. The former for moving subjects, the latter for static (with zoom 1:1). I use laser distance meter, not tape.

Stefan Antonescu said:
2. Is it MUCH easier to pulling focus with cine lenses rather than with still lenses ?
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Yes, much easier. It is actually very difficult to pull focus on wider apertures on a moving subject with still lenses.
 
Pulling focus from the monitor (while done more and more these days) always leaves you behind the action.

Marking can be over done to death as well.

Best focus puller I ever worked with (Mr. Negrin) comes to set with a grease pencil and his soft tape, nothing more. I can't recall ever seeing him tape out though, he eyeballs everything and is always spot on.

Eyeballing distance is pretty easy for most AC's that pull focus. A nice practice method is to sit around your house and guess the distance from yourself to the lamp, then throw out your tape and see how far off you were. Do this as much as you can and eventually you'll be able to eyeball 3'6" without a problem.

If you can eyeball various movements and actions, good for you. But is the WHOLE/COMPLETE shot in focus? Rehearsals for marks are a necessary part of production.

I pull focus when I'm hired to pull focus (usually very difficult shots/camera moves involved). Otherwise, someone is hired to pull.

I use soft tape, hard tape, eyeball and a laser. Each have their uses and downsides.
 
I regularly use both Cine and still lenses

Cine lenses are much easier for focus pulling, especially with a moving camera.

The one issue though is that the longer focus throw can bit you if your subject to lens distance changes very radically. Part of designing a good move is avoiding a "wrist snapper," but its not really that hard.

As far as focus goes I very much prefer "tape."

I do a lot of work that involves composites and 3D, so if I don't have an accurate camera log with lens and distance the compositor has to gauge everything by eye. That is the road to bad perspective and bad composites. Even compositors that do get it right will spend a lot more time.

So, lens, lens height and focal distance goes into the log every shot.

The old standard is soft tape, not the contractor style metal band. You can use the metal tape, but you must also use much greater caution especially with actors who may not be paying attention. Because of the caution its often much slower to use the metal tape.

A lot of AC's are using lasers now, but that can be dangerous. I recommend they still work with the 2AC. In this case though 1AC can sit at the camera, and 2AC can take a target around the set to get marks. The target (often just the slate) can also be used to check focus.

What I do not tolerate is using the laser on an unaware subject. I've fired camera crew for repeat offenses of that rule.

Eyeballing also happens, but I don't encourage it for most work. I prefer eyeballing be used for unplanned adjustments during a take.

Lens data systems reduce the need for a hyperaccurate camera log - but to date LDS and /i data are not available on RED cameras.

Epic should change that- but I haven't tested of course. With luck we'll get accurate lens data not only from cine lenses, but also from electronic SLR lenses. (Which means my trusty budget friendly Zeiss ZF SLR lenses will probably be swapped for ZF.2 or ZE.2)

Now here is the thing... even with a good lens data setup, you still need to periodically tape things out. During setup for sure. You must be certain that the lens markings are accurate. Cine lenses are much better about this, but a good camera crew will test - never assume. (The need for testing is why a lot of DP's always use their "own" lenses even from the rental facility. They and their camera crew know those lenses and their various quirks- including where and how their markings are off, intimately.)

So you want to establish a good delta between your tape measure and what the lens measure son the barrel and what it reports via its data.

Secondly you still should be taping heights and you will need to tape out relative distances around your set. Mostly so the 1AC has good references to pull to if the subject moves unexpectedly.

So, if I have an actor entering from an elevator and then proceeding to a desk, the AC will tape the distance to the elevator and the desk. They may also tape a rail midway and another desk on set, incase the actor moves unexpectedly. If the camera is moving, then the AC will often tape all those distances from several positions along the camera's motion path.

In this way the AC can dynamically respond to changes in staging or camera motion.

None of this works if you use the "modern lazy" method of focusing to a punched in image.
 
James McLellan said:
Does anyone use star charts?

I have a small star chart taped on the back of the slate to mark focus points using the punch in method. Does anyone else do that?
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Yes.

I usually keep a Fujinon star chart on hand for setup. I need a replacement now- considering just printing my own.

Most of the time though the camera log, which my ACs keep taped on the back of the slate, provides all the focus assistance we might need.
 
If you are using cine lenses and they have the proper backfocus set, and your camera's lens mount is collimated, you can focus by tape or by eye on the monitor.

If you are using still lenses, there is no way you can focus by tape. You can't change the backfocus at all, and even if they were perfectly calibrated out of the box, they have far too few distance markings to give you anywhere near the sort of precision you need. So just forget focusing still lenses by tape.
 
Focus pulling is an acquired skill, patiently developed over time. The traditional union crew system is pretty great about teaching a person all the tricks for the myriad of different situations you'll find yourself in over your career.

I was taught as a 2nd the importance of laying marks for my boss... and how those little pieces of tape on the floor mean both your job and the job of the guy who hired you.

When I first started to pull focus I was trained the old school way - get your marks when you can, and execute the work standing just behind the operator on the left side of the camera, left hand on the knob and keeping line of sight along the lens marking to talent. I was amazed at how well this translated to operating docu-style as my left hand naturally did its muscle memory thing to find eyefocus, and right hand fell naturally onto the pan handle. Of course the old exercise of tossing out an object, and playing the estimation game in your mind before pulling a tape out to check is a good way to train your human rangefinder skills.

As for how to pull focus... there are so many ways to skin a cat. Elkins book is only gonna get you so far.

But Mr. Booth, and Mr. Mullen have both noted that relying solely on the HD onboard monitor is a recipe for failure. Bottom line f-pullers - if you think you can survive solely by focus highlighting or peaking tools you are gonna deliver soft stuff. Look we all do it - especially in this modern age of digital cinema, but use it like you would any other tool. Do you trust a Cinetape to be spot on 100% of the time? No. Do you trust an actor is going to hit his mark 100%. No. Use it for reference and as another tool in your arsenal... Honestly I have watched a whole new generation of AC's who consistently pull off a monitor like its the only way to do it....bad habits.

If the shot isn't crazy, I'll pull a soft tape out into set for marks. If appropriate I'll respectfully introduce myself to talent. Establish a constructive working relationship early on.

If working within 10' I'll typically use a steel tape measure. I use a 16' Fat Max. Not too big on the belt, and has a great stand-off distance. Usually I'll sound off with "tape-out" so as not to surprise anyone out there.

Laser rangefinders are a godsend. I use a Hilti PD-42 - the one with the viewfinder for bright conditions. It helps to quickly get accurate marks without having to leave the side of the camera. Some DP's and talent are not cool with shining lasers around the set -understandably. A dot on the floor will tell you as much as a dot on talent's forehead... be discreet.

If you can get a wireless follow-focus it will make your job much easier. You aren't stuck at camera, and you can gain an alternative perspective on the relationship between camera set and talent.

Dolly shots I'll use the risers of the dolly track as a measurement system that I can trust, and I'll lay marks at regular intervals along these points as to distance to subject.

Steadicam I'll scurry along with the operator during rehearsal and quickly lay marks at his feet for both the op and myself. Sort of like working dot-to-dot. During the take I adjust for misalignment of operator or talent...

Cranes are tricky, but I usually use a combination of a laser reference point of the floor,
Cinetape, and laser rangefinder work sometimes using Pythagorean to determine exact distance.

Use your Samcine, Kelly Wheel, pCam, iPhone or whatever to keep you honest about your acceptable depth of field for the selected lens and stop. Hyperfocal can save your ass.

Worst case, Triage, no rehearsal, shoot it NOW scenario. I'll quickly scope the set for what I call "zones" and find things in the set to describe those zones. For instance 30' to 20' is the school bus to the driveway. 20' -15' is driveway to rosebush. 15' to 10' is rosebush to mailbox. 10' to 6' is mailbox to that crack in the sidewalk.... etc.
 
Stephen Strangways said:
If you are using cine lenses and they have the proper backfocus set, and your camera's lens mount is collimated, you can focus by tape or by eye on the monitor.

If you are using still lenses, there is no way you can focus by tape. You can't change the backfocus at all, and even if they were perfectly calibrated out of the box, they have far too few distance markings to give you anywhere near the sort of precision you need. So just forget focusing still lenses by tape.
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Based on lots of in focus footage from lots of production, all focused by tape, I call bullshit.

That's how I learned and that's how I work if you hire me as 1AC.

I assure you tape works on SLR lenses.

Of course, you have to do what a lot of AC's do anyway with Cine lenses- make your own marks.

That's the 1AC's job.

That's what I've trained my 1AC to do as well- but she does what she does. Ultimately I just want everything in focus (when its supposed to be)- and she delivers so I leave her alone.
 
when i AC, I take visual marks..

example.. guy walking from one end to another.. I have someone go to different points..

corner of building.. trash can half way.. door jam.. so on.. I get like 4 marks.. then I visually pull.
 
Shawn Booth said:
Very nicely put Mr. Hardwick. Thank you.
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+1, excellent post.

Michael Hardwick said:
If you can get a wireless follow-focus it will make your job much easier. You aren't stuck at camera, and you can gain an alternative perspective on the relationship between camera set and talent.
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Very true, but as for everything else, it depends on the situation. I've seen a few assistants using remote FF all the time, and others who hate being away from the camera: most ACs I've met, worked with and learned from identify the right approach to the right situation, and use the tools they have accordingly. There are times when it's better to be closer to the camera, lens AND more importantly to the camera operator. If there's a problem with focus (no matter how good you are, it can happen), I'd rather be close to the camera operator so he can warn me by just moving a finger.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
I assure you tape works on SLR lenses.
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Maybe I should specify a bit better... The RED setup I work with the most has a Birger mount and Canon AF lenses. A popular lens on the productions I work on has the following marking precision: Infinity, 10 feet, 3 feet, and then closer. Not much precision, and the throw on the focusing ring for those distances is quite short.

With a properly collimated Birger mount (parfocal lenses stay focused through their zoom range) the lens data is still quite a ways off - indicating 4 feet when the actual distance is 6-8 feet.

While you might have better luck with older manual focus lenses having more markings, and a different mount on the RED having less of a backfocus distance issue, and I can assure you that the accuracy in markings, and in backfocus, of stills lenses is nowhere near as good as a cine lens.
And that's by design - stills lenses are cheaper because they are tested and matched to appropriate focus scales, and they aren't designed to be shimmed.

Can you make your own marks for the still lenses? Sure, you can measure all sorts of distances for each still lens and make marks on your follow focus, but I can't imagine that being very practical on-set unless you keep a marking disc for each lens already pre-marked.

If, however, you are just measuring and marking a few points of focus for each scene, then I'm sure you are finding those points by focusing on the monitor by eye, not just measuring out a distance, dialing the lens there, and trusting it to be in focus.

Working with cine lenses that have been tested and shimmed recently is a whole lot faster and easier, and lends itself much more to a "measure, set it, go" way of working.
 
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