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Lens Sale Dispute - Please Help

I am with Dan.

Just bought some used gear, despite being in great condition, its still USED. IF i give it a once over and find wear and scratches and dust, well, its been in the field. That happens. Anyone who buys used gear should be under the assumption that the gear is in need of service, and barely functional. If it shows up working and liek new, Great! but if not, don't be surprised.

sounds like a scam.

I just bought a Cooke Varotal for a very good price, I resigned to spending the "reminder" to get it up and running again. I took it to ZGC and had Guy, the Cooke tech, take a look. He said its in great shape, and should last for years. So i lucked out, but it could have been a disaster. Either way, expect and prepare for the worst....

Anyone operating as though thats not true is up to no good.
 
Scammer no, opportunist yes.

You will have to go with the due process. You will win.
 
To me, It all depends on the lens guy! If he is a reputable lens tech then call him direct and discuss it. If he is reputable, he can easily tell you how big or not a problem this is. I would call him directly. If the buyer won't disclose then I smell BS.

In my mind if he rebuilds and adjusts the lens it would be worth more, perhaps a push on the $$$.

It is likely possible an internal scratch will never be seen. I have an old 16mm zoom with minor scratchs and it never photographed on the 100+ project I used it on.

Let us know what happens!

Good luck with it all!

Prost,
Rich
 
Hi Aaron, As you may know I sell a lot ofused kit, lenses etc on Reduser and also upon Ebay.
On Reduser I have found that if I have made a mistake in my written appraisel then the client does not usually take the item to pieces or take it to another lens tech until he has asked me what I want to do about the situation he has discovered. Usually, we find a mutal way through, thats works for both our mutuality. Now EBAY is a different problem. First the buyer has bought your product and has read all your selling warranties and also knows the ebay rules.
To ask for money and then take the item to pieces is a NO NO! IMHO he cannot refuse to tell you who the lens tech is and moreover he cannot now say the lens is No Good.
Ask for a picture/s of the lens stripped down. I bet it will not come.
If he has not yet contacted EBAY then you should do this first and write an accurate report for them sending all your email correspondence to them as well.
IF they then contact the guy and get the same run arpound you have had then I am sure you will be upheld. They will probably BAN him. If they say you must give the cash back ask for the lens to be returned in the condition you sent it. Stalemate, will I am sure happen as at the end of all this I am sure the guy is trying to Rip you off bigtime.
If the lens does return, send it to a reputable Cooke repairer for another written appraisel. The only way a lens can be scratched internally is by a bad tech after your filmic successes I doubt this is true.
Thats my take from London, and I ship worldwide often.
Cheers Tonycovell@talktalk.net
 
I'm no lawyer, but here's what I'd do... Results aren't guaranteed...

Have him send the lens back to you in the condition he received it. Assembled. But before he does this, he must put you in touch with the lens technician who serviced it. You must confirm, by third party, that the lens was in fact serviced and you must have verification of this fact in the form of pictures and a service contract or invoice. It is reasonable for you to require that the item was not damaged by untrained or incompetent service personnel while it was in the buyer's custody. And you cannot take the item back until this fact is established. (Don't take back the lens.)

If he refuses to do this, (which he likely will) tell him that the lens is his and he has to release all claims on the transaction with Paypal within 24 hours (time limits here are important, use them). If he does not do this, tell him you are going to file a report with the state attorney general's office and the District Attorneys for the city and county in which he resides because you suspect this smells fraudulent, but you are not an expert in fraud, and because you want to believe him, you will forward the matter to experts in such torrid dealings.

He will ask you "How is this fraudulent? How!?"

You respond with: "I'll know its fraudulent if you can't give me the lens technician's name at the end of this call or my money in the next 24 hours. Apart from these material facts, I have no idea what the law will say."

(The extraction of $500 from you for a service he cannot prove was performed - this is the scam: Buying a valuable item, claiming defect, and requiring re-imbursement for an expensive service that was never performed. You get the item back, he gets his money back, but he keeps your $500. If he does this a couple of times a week, he's made a good living. He only has to tie up a small amount of capital to make this work.)

DANGER WILL ROBINSON: He has had time to establish a bullshit lens repair paper trail. You will call the business and request referrals from other customers whom you will contact-- you must vet them thoroughly.

It will take very little effort for Law Enforcement to find if he has more than one online identity, bank account and paypal account. He will live in mortal fear of such official scrutiny - especially if he's part of a crew and he's drawing heat on them. He will give you back a furious indignant "How dare you sir!" Don't let this play on your emotions- stand your ground- don't lose your cool- ever. The scammer's chief weapons are smoke, mirrors and righteous indignation- if you insist on verification- they got no wiggle room. He'll try to draw you into a verbal fight or try and make you feel like an idiot- these are stalls. Pay them no heed.

In a calm, relaxed voice, let your response be: "Be that as it may, if I don't get my money in 24 hours, this matter will be decided by the authorities." -- It helps if you know the names of the Attorney General and the DA in both his neck of the woods and your own- learn them.

If he lives in another state, its an interstate commerce violation and a Federal matter. If he's a scammer, he will comply and cut his losses with you. If he's genuine, he should have no problem complying with your very reasonable requests to verify the service of the lens. But you better vet the outfit.

Good luck, Bro. Never sell lenses without a hands-on face-to-face and a "hold harmless" agreement or other liability release to protect yourself.
 
Jeff Coatney said:
I'm no lawyer, but here's what I'd do... Results aren't guaranteed...<snip>

(The extraction of $500 from you for a service he cannot prove was performed - this is the scam: Buying a valuable item, claiming defect, and requiring re-imbursement for an expensive service that was never performed. You get the item back, he gets his money back, but he keeps your $500. If he does this a couple of times a week, he's made a good living. He only has to tie up a small amount of capital to make this work.)
Click to expand...


Jeff, I agree with most of your advice, but you've missed something here. The $500 was a partial refund, based on the lens being in less than satisfactory condition. If the buyer completes the reversal of the transaction, they'll get the *balance* back. They're out of pocket by the shipping cost, they've gained at best a week or two free rental.

There's no profit there for them - unless the $500 was for a service that wasn't performed, as you say, and he *keeps* the lens and the $500 - in that case he just got $500 off the price, that's all. There's no dollar profit and no business model there to make a good living.

Personally, at this point, I'd refer the buyer to the case of Arkell vs. Pressdram. They opened the lens, they own it.

Mike
 
I'd still confirm if the service was performed. The buyer's response was a red flag. Even if he gets a full refund, he'd probably want to be re-imbursed for the service costs.
 
Transactions on eBay are risky. A safety I use, is to buy using my Amex Platinum. When I bought a $6000 camera on eBay and the seller took the money and refused to deliver, Amex gave me a full refund and took over the investigation. That makes the member fees worth every penny.
 
Chris Henze said:
Transactions on eBay are risky. A safety I use, is to buy using my Amex Platinum. When I bought a $6000 camera on eBay and the seller took the money and refused to deliver, Amex gave me a full refund and took over the investigation. That makes the member fees worth every penny.
Click to expand...

Hah. Amex. Don't get me started. Oooops, too late. My experience is the opposite; they're a bunch of thieving bastards.

About ten years ago, bought a used camera from an ebay seller. Paid with Amex. Package turned up a week or two later containing a piece of garbage: the cobbled together bits of two incompatible cameras, definitely NOT the one I'd bid on.

Seller told me to get a horse... 'so long, sucker'. Seller was kicked off ebay shortly after due to numerous complaints - turned out he was a complete crook who had been kicked off ebay more than once before.

No problem - Amex will take care of me, right? Called them, arranged a chargeback. Was denied; seller had provided 1. proof of delivery and 2. a copy of the auction listing said 'sold as-is'. Well of course it was 'as-is', I didn't have a problem with that - the problem was I never got *the item I'd bought* - he sent me a *different camera* which was a heap of junk instead.

Explained to Amex - told them the problem was the goods sent weren't the ones I'd bought. Pointed out seller was a complete crook who had been thrown off ebay more than once. They processed another chargeback. Denied again, exactly the same explanation.

Furious now, got on to Amex managers. Went through the same story - 'yes yes we see your point, we'll charge it back again. Sorry about the delay.' Made them promise to call me back *before* someone decided to deny the chargeback again.

Next I heard - chargeback denied for third time, same explanation. I think they just photocopied the letter... never got the promised call to discuss the situation before they made a final decision.

'No, it's not possible for us to do a fourth chargeback. Terribly sorry. You'll have to pay.'

So of course I cut up the Amex, sent it back with a cheque for my final bill - LESS the cost of the camera. And told them where to stick their balance, their card, and their customer service. They tried to come after me for the money, but I told them in no uncertain terms to go whistle, so in the end they charged it off.

Thing is, we're wealthy. If they had kept us on as customers we would probably have qualifed for a Centurion by now. If they treat high-spending customers like that, how do they treat the average Joe?

Mike
 
Chris Henze said:
Ouch, maybe I got lucky, sorry you had such a problem.
Click to expand...

Well, I think yours was easier (from the Amex point of view) because there was no delivery. My seller was able to provide proof that *something* was delivered to me... it might as well have been a box of bricks for all the use it was, but Amex took a very simplistic view: 'you paid, he delivered, therefore no problem'.

Mike
 
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