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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red One M camera is still a good deal?

Dan Kanes said:
Buy your lenses and a good medium small o'connor head and sticks.

Lenses and sticks never go out of style.


I have a feeling you might be able to get an Epic S by the time you make your movie.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more about the lenses. But I'm skeptical that anyone who isn't already a Red-owner would be able to get an Epic-S 2 months after the production line is guessed to start.

What else does your 20k budget need to cover? Or is it purely for the camera you wish to shoot on.

I'm currently about 1/4 through shooting a feature on a Modified 5D with Russian Lomo Anamorphics. I've found that footage can sharpen well, up to 2k. (but as previous posts have explained, there isn't a hope in hell of up-resing to 4k)

I myself, am very satisfied with my camera rig and I'm yet to strike any problems with the functionality of it during production.

If there is still any interest in going with a 5D + a kit of anamorphics, this is where I had my 5D gutted and modified to take them:
http://www.cinemods.com/

Another production I came across, Shot on a 5D with Lomo Anamorphics:
http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi695638553/
 
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Rent it. RedOne kits are cheap. Put the money you save into the film project.

The RedOne M is a great camera I still work with. It's now three years old, not really an age I would retire a camera. Upgrading to MX does make sense, especially if you need the extra sensitivity and the slightly better DR. As a rental house you the upgrade is a must. For me as an owner who uses the camera exclusively for his own projects it's nice to have but not utterly needed.

IMHO, the new colour science was the biggest achievement in the last 2 years - and it's for free.

Don't buy one now. Rent, wait and then buy an Epic S, for instance.

Hans
 
Think I cross-posted my advice in another thread... but basically I agree with most - rent an R1-MX for now (buy the glass if you can and would like to begin investing) and then wait for the Epic.

We seem to be at the point between the two releases where you could end up losing out due to the timing, so hold off until either R1-MX prices take wider Epic availability into account, or you can get an Epic yourself.
 
Yes Red One M is still a great camera, and still good value. Even when Epic arrives. But only you can judge whether its low light performance measures up to what you want to do with it. But it is leaps better now with current builds than it once was at the launch. Add a noise reduction filter and it has pretty good results even in tough light. Yes this will be better on future cams and yes mx is better in this respect. But soon MX will probably be blown out of the water on this too. But, I think if you make a good deal on an M now which fits your budget, you can hardly go wrong. At least you will be shooting now, and learning now. If we don't make it look good on a Red One, it really is our fault, not the camera. Personally I think long time renting is in many cases a relative bad investment and offers very little flexibility and time to learn to use the camera. And if I am not mistaken, the cheaper Epic does not offer the same amount in high fps as a Red One does (not sure though). Rent or borrow an M sensor, and see if you like it. There are a lot of people still on M sensor and a lot are holding on to their Red One even after Epic ships. This has reasons...
 
The thing is.

Im in Brazil. Here is 2.5k a week to rent a Red Mx package. So, im not renting cause im going to shoot for 10 WEEKS. For sure im going to buy it. its the money i would pay for the rent only. 20k at least.

im the director and the DP. i work when i want, i want the freedom of owning one.

The 5d footage is mud and the compression SHINES, it has some charm to it but i can't feel 100% assured with it.

the budget for my film is 300k. i have this for everything. plus 150k after filming for the post and 35mm copies. To get this grant it took me 7 years. Red didnt exist when i started to apply for the money. I only got it now, and to get money for another feature, if i dont put this film in a BIG FESTIVAL or something, may take me another 7 years to get.

So i have to think about NOW. I have to film this feature this year if i want to use the money that i got from the funds. So, an Epic-S only next year, for me, it's worse than a VHS today. hehe. Waiting is out of question. If i wait, i don't have the money anymore.

Anamorphic for me is like that blonde girl you never touched while in the school. and now i have a chance to have a date with her... so it`s something that im looking for.

my full budget for the camera, acessories and lenses are 25k.

you've been very helpful...now that you have all the info on my project, i would love to have even more help from you guys.

Thanks
 
After what you just wrote.. for sure buy an M sensor Red One. It really is all you need and you can make that long awaited project NOW, in crazy quality and within budget. Get the cam, get the lenses and get to know the camera and lenses a bit before you start the first day of shooting.
 
for a even more precise help, if you want to check out, take a look at my last short film: http://www.vimeo.com/10642873

password: casa

it played well around the world in some festival, and i did the DP also. I want to repeat the same style of this one in the feature film. plus anamorphic.
this one was shot with a d90 and i did a transfer to 35mm. Carl zeiss SF1 lenses and some crap zoom. and NO ARTIFICIAL LIGHTS AT ALL. seriously.

i would like to know where can i buy some square front lomo...?

another question is, is really the MX version just a little plus over the M for someone that never worked with a Red?

thanks
 
Daniel Aragão said:
for a even more precise help, if you want to check out, take a look at my last short film: http://www.vimeo.com/10642873

password: casa

it played well around the world in some festival, and i did the DP also. I want to repeat the same style of this one in the feature film. plus anamorphic.
this one was shot with a d90 and i did a transfer to 35mm. Carl zeiss SF1 lenses and some crap zoom. and NO ARTIFICIAL LIGHTS AT ALL. seriously.

i would like to know where can i buy some square front lomo...?

another question is, is really the MX version just a little plus over the M for someone that never worked with a Red?

thanks
Click to expand...
Daniel, this will be very tight budget. Camera package with necessary accessories will run you between $18-20K for R1 M. Are lenses the only other thing you need? Sticks, mattebox, etc?

For what it's worth, here is a complete M-X package with everything you'll need to shoot minus lenses, lights, sticks, follow focus, mattebox, etc. It is executed, so can't be upgraded to Epic, but still not a bad deal considering what you get. If you can stretch your budget.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Complete-Red-On...ilm_Cameras&hash=item2eb305d00f#ht_718wt_1141
 
Steve,

actually, it's not a tight budget anymore. they are a lot of people selling for 18-20k with all the acessories, the MX version. for the M version i can have for less than 15k
the sticks and tripod, etc, i already have.

im not going to buy expensive lenses. I want a nikon adapter for my Zeiss SF and there will be some money for the anamorphics...

If anyone here knows somobody who wants to sell their anamorphics square front, please tell me.

thanks
 
Daniel, define all the accessories. For me that means the following minimum:

Camera Body
RED EVF or LCD
4 Batteries
Charger
AC Adapter
RED Drive or multiple CF cards (at least eight 8GB or four 16GB)

If M-X packages are going for 18-20K with those accessories included, then jump all over that.

It would get you by. There are loads of accessories that makes the camera truly battle ready, but as an indie filmmaker directing and shooting, you could probably get by without some of them.

Get the ProLock Nikon mount. www.optitek.org

If you have never shot with RED, I suggest taking a course. Jay Kelly has a great DVD. http://dreamwelder.com/red101/?source=RU and FXPHD has some great online courses as well. http://www.fxphd.com/

RED does Reducation but that may not be possible for you. here's the link anyway.
www.reducation.net

If you have lenses already, that is good. Test them extensively when you get the RED and the mount. Make sure all is well.

Do you shoot a lot of handheld? If so, I have recommendations on doing that economically. You'll need a good handheld solution.

If you can get a RED M-X that cheap by all means do it. You won't regret it.
 
The MX is only really advantageous in low light. I'd rather use an M in daylight without NDs than an MX with..

.. then again build 30 improved low light performance for the M also, so its a little more robust than it used to be in the blue channel under low light tungsten, but with "lighting" the benefits disappear for me (and several of my clients have expressed that opinion when I asked "should I upgrade or wait for Epic?")

When proper lighting isn't possible (!!!).. Neatvideo (an $80 noise reduction plugin) is your "ISO2000 friend"

IMO , If your budget only allows you to buy an original R1, get it rather than a Z1.. if you can afford everything you need on top

Hope that helps
 
cameras = terrible long term investment
lenses, aks, lighting = good long term investment..

honestly.. better off renting the camera. you most likely wont make your money back on the camera with rentals at this point in the game
 
Zak, in this case this is an indie director/DP who sounds like he wants to use it to make his own films which he has managed to get financing for. Doesn't sound like he's looking to rent it out, unless I misunderstood him. In that case, a camera like the Red One M or M-X is not a bad investment. 4K footage shot with it won't suddenly be outdated. If he were renting it out, that may be a different story as the market might demand the cutting edge camera. Daniel should be able to make movies with the R1 for at least a few years.

I do agree with you about lenses and lighting though. They are not necessarily bound by a camera per se, only in terms of a mount or a color temperature. Sounds like he has some decent glass and likes natural light.

I think Daniel is a good candidate for buying a camera, whereas a lot of others may not be best served by doing this right now.
 
yes your very right steve..

My camera is mostly for my own personal use and this has been great value.. This camera is def useable for YEARS to come.. really cant see how much better quality can truly get at this point.. i feel we have reached a pinnacle. Minus some DR issues..

so yes.. personal use.. this is great
 
Natural light for me is always the main goal.
Is there a video somewhere M vs the MX compared side by side?

The lenses im going to buy are not high speed. i think they are 2.3T or something. The Lomos. Don't know if they are good enough for some locations. I have a few night locations that i can't use too much lights or almost nothing. Like some street scenes lighted only by the streets public light.

My film is B&W. So maybe it will help to get an improved image without the MX sensor?
No chroma noise or such thing?

hmmm. How good is the M low light compared to the 5D?

Thanks!
 
Daniel Aragão said:
Natural light for me is always the main goal.
Is there a video somewhere M vs the MX compared side by side?

The lenses im going to buy are not high speed. i think they are 2.3T or something. The Lomos. Don't know if they are good enough for some locations. I have a few night locations that i can't use too much lights or almost nothing. Like some street scenes lighted only by the streets public light.

My film is B&W. So maybe it will help to get an improved image without the MX sensor?
No chroma noise or such thing?

hmmm. How good is the M low light compared to the 5D?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

5D better in low light. Unlit street light shots would require Neatvideo or similar in post, depending on the moon and number of street lights

One of my first rental jobs ended with the DP shooting in an industrial estate with sparse street lights, in car shots, with inadequate battery powered lights.

In the end Neatvideo made the shots perfectly useable

ps, I don't work for neatvideo, just don't know other good NR brands..

pps, If you did go the 5D route, remember to turn off all internal sharpening..and if you have windows VirtualDub (freeware) + MSU Smart De-blocking Plugin (freeware also ) can reduce macro-blocking when needed ;)
 
5D is hell for many shots. Believe me, I've been seeing hours of it every day last year.

It is good for very limited applications.

For run'n gunning - which it invites to... not so much.
And the codec is horrible.

But do what suits you (and don't ever try to run with the 5D or mount it on anything moving + shoot hair or diagonals with deep focus...)
 
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