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Requesting Advice for Accessory Purchase Strategy

K

Kian Marandi

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Hello Red Community,

Like many, I am planning on moving to a Red DSMC system in the near future.

Currently however, I do small time videography work with my HVX200. There are instances where a client will offer (and I will sometimes agree) to compensate me by purchasing equipment that I can keep after.

For obvious reasons, I'd like to keep purchases in the "works only with the HVX200" category to a minimum.

Are there any must-have or useful accessories for the Red DSMC system that can also be beneficial to my work with the HVX?

My first guess would be the Red Pro Matte Box, although I'm not 100% sure if it would work with the HVX. Red models currently in consideration: Scarlet Fixed/Cinema, Epic-S.

Any input or suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,
Kian
 
Thanks for the quick reply, Martin.

I have a very basic entry level Manfrotto setup for a tripod. Definitely not Red caliber or even HVX caliber for that matter. Something I definitely need to invest in, however it isn't Red product specific thus I didn't intend to clutter the forums here with that discussion.

No follow-focus, I just use the bone-stock HVX. Don't really have any camera mounted accessories of any kind. Like I said... fairly small-time! =)

Grip: I often use a DV Multirig-Pro or the tripod mentioned above.

Lights: 3 LED fixtures from Cool Lights.

Audio: Rode NTG-3 with K-Tek boompole, and C-stand + holder combo to keep it up unmanned.

Manpower: Just me! No assistants (unless a friend or colleague offers to help).

Project types: Often interview style, little bit of creative work. However I often have personal projects that are more along the lines of short-films, video-sketches, etc. Given that I don't have a lot of equipment, I like to make sure that what I invest in can be flexible enough to work in as many styles of projects as possible.

Don't want the thread to stray away from Red specific products/recommendations though (want to keep you and the other mods happy). =)

Cheers,
Kian
 
Dont worry - I'm low maintenance.

I'll actually start by suggesting a couple of non RED accessoires:

1.) Better tripod head. Gibby recommends the Miller Arrow 55, but mileage varies for everyone. So best would be to go to a good tripod shop.

2.) Some small, controllable lights, f.eks. Dedolights. Great for setting little high-lights.

3.) A stronger source to help you fight bright rooms, or re-create daylight. Ideally a HMI source.

4.) Other than that I'd try to save money for the gear that will surface around the time that the Scarlets are released into the wild.
 
Thanks Martin. Appreciate it. I'll take a look at all of those suggestions.

How about anything from Red specifically? I've never had any hands on experience with the equipment so I cannot speak to what elements are absolutely necessary. I'm sure it changes from person to person.

It's possible the answer to my question is: "No, there isn't anything you absolutely need from Red that could also work for your HVX."

Just want to consider all options. =)
 
With all due respect to the arrangements that have worked for you, why equipment instead of money? Presumably, the client has to pay cash for the equipment anyway, no? Maybe some clients would consider switching to a more flexible medium of exchange.

The reason I say that is because I think it would be hard to start accumulating RED-specific accessories until you have the camera in hand. (Unless you plan on buying a RED ONE, in which case it is easier to know what accessories you might want.) I have thought along those lines myself and keep thinking that I should just accumulate money in anticipation of getting my Scarlet so I can figure out what will work best after I have it.

Just a thought? :001_cool:
 
Hi Terry. I definitely agree. Cash compensation is obviously preferred and I would ideally not even have to ask this question! =)

These arrangements are usually due to budget allocation and PO process restrictions for the company requesting the project.

It doesn't happen often. In fact, I'm potentially facing only the second time this has ever happened. Nevertheless, the situation is what it is, and I just want to play my cards right.

I 100% agree with you though.
 
I hear you. How come the world just never lines up the way we think it should?! :iagree:

And I feel your pain. I keep wondering whether I should order SSDs or a BOMB EVF (good luck with that, eh?). I guess I am lucky in that I can just sit tight. Of course, I'll probably have regrets when I have my Scarlet and no recording media... or something. :willy_nilly:
 
Lol... that's one of my fears actually.

I flirt with the idea of jumping from a Scarlet to an Epic-S, but I don't think I quite realize how much the rest of the system will put me back!

To make an analogy:

"Here you are Kian, your Epic-S brain..."
"Awesome! Can't wait to start shooting"
"Yes, now all you need is the skull, the eyes, the ears, the mouth, the legs, the arms, the..."

lol... but that's part of the fun isn't it?
 
I'm actually a little confused about how much an Epic-S would cost myself. We have the base brain at $12k, but what is needed at minimum to get it running?

My educated guess is like this - let's hope someone listening has more definitive answers.

A lens. Take the new 17-50 at $6,000. (People don't seem to like the old 18-50 even though it is much cheaper). However, if you want to be able to use autofocus, you might be better off getting a DSLR mount and using DSLR lenses. I am a bit confused about this issue. The 17-50 is full manual only, correct? On the other hand, the EPIC DR is so high that you might be able to get away with an estimated exposure for the scene and then not change it. So maybe all you need to worry about is focus.

My impression, more or less collected by osmosis reading REDUSER, is that the main difference between cine and DSLR lenses is that the zoom and focus mechanisms of the DSLR are not smooth as Cine lenses are, so you don't want to use them while the camera is running, only to frame up a shot. Am I correct in this assumption? DSLR lenses are of course far cheaper. I'm not sure if RED has an electronic cine lens solution yet and of course the non-red cine lenses are unbelievably expensive.

It might be worth considering an 18-85 since we can get a "Battle Tested" version for $6k as well. But that lens might be too big and heavy for any kind of spontaneous shooting, so I'll stick with 17-50 for now.

Then we remember that the SSD holster is $1,500 and a 256GB SSD is $3,200. For my "run and gun" style shooting that's what I think I need. I believe the REDMOTE is $500 but I would be tempted to see if someone has an iPhone app that basically does the same thing. It would probably be much more laggy than the REDMOTE, but of course i already have an iPhone and it might be worth a try.

I am very confused about how the various accessories work. It seems like the EPIC would be difficult to hold without some kind of shoulder mount and I'm not sure how one is assembled with the rather bewildering array of rods and such. The RED ONE production pack of rods is $1,200, so for someone like me who just wants a cost estimate without really understanding how things work, that seems like a reasonable first guess estimate.

The BOMB EVF appears to be a rare collector's item at the moment and at any rate it's $3,200. I am used to using LCD displays, and Ted seems to do fine with his on the Scarlet, so let's pencil in $1,700 for the 5" display.

So what do we have for a fairly minimal system?

$12,000 base camera
$ 6,000 most economical lens option (also note the battle tested 18-85 for the same price, but it's really heavy)
$ 1,500 to hook up the SSD
$ 3,200 for a 256gb SSD module
$ 500 for a REDMote (somewhat optional but I'll bet I'd want it once I saw it in action)
$ 1,200 for production pack rods
---------
$24,400 for a minimally workable EPIC-S

Just to round out the picture, most of us would probably prefer the EPIC-X. The base EPIC-S for non-RED ONE owners is $28,000. Add the same accessories to it and get $40,400.

Now, we should compare this to Scarlet Fixed. A minimal Scarlet Fixed is $6,000. That includes a $500 CF adapter that we can trade in towards the $1,500 SSD adapter. But we still need storage. The same 256GB SSD is $3,200 plus $1,000 for the SSD adapter. Ted seems fairly comfortable hand-holding it without additional accessories. Nonetheless, we are looking at $6,000 + $4,200, or $9,200. (Of course I could save quite a bit with a smaller SSD and a 128GB SSD is probably close to equivalent to the 256GB on an EPIC with its higher resolution). Toss in a spare battery or REDMote (not sure if it's included or not, probably not) and get to $10k.

So here is our approximate price chart:

$10,000 - Fully functioning Scarlet Fixed. Significantly lighter and easier to handle than EPIC-S. Perfect for run and gun documentary work since it has a good autofocus zoom out of the box. I do wonder about its lack of image stabilization, however. Somewhere in the middle of the pack as a long-term digital filmmaking tool, but for anything not destined for huge screens it will be fine for many years to come.

$24,400 - Fully functioning EPIC-S. Perfect for anything going to the silver screen that does not require slow motion effects.

$40,400 - Fully functioning EPIC-X. Perfect for absolutely anything you can throw at it.

Note that Jim is very generous to his friends, current RED ONE owners. They can get a mostly functioning EPIC-X for $28k. This seems like an unbeatable deal and I would jump on it if I were a RED ONE owner. This post is for people like me who are thinking about EPIC-S versus Scarlet and have never owned (or been able to afford) a RED ONE.

For my run and gun documentary shooting it seems like at least right now the Scarlet Fixed has clear advantages even over the EPIC-S because of the lack of autofocus-capable cine lenses for the latter. And of course it's less than half the price. However, I have to say that I would find EPIC-S tempting as long as I want to spend the big bucks, since as you can see even Scarlet Fixed is the price of a lousy new car. EPIC-S is the price of a decent new car. EPIC-X is getting close to that 2007 Mercedes SL550 I've always wanted.

About how close am I to understanding the price structure? I'd love to know how much the "gunner" rig shown in one of Jim's renders would really cost.

D
 
Based on what we know, I think that all adds up.

Problematically, we don't know what RED is going to do with pricing fo individual items, much less the possibility of of "kit" pricing. And I don't think we can expect to until the moment things actually start happening.

RED is, if anything, full of surprises.
 
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