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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Bomb EVF Shipping

Steve Gibby said:
IThere is probably nobody here except Ted Schiliwitz who heard about Jim's dream of Red cameras earlier than I did (mid-2005 directly from Jim). There are only a very few here (Jim, Graeme, etc) who attended and contributed to the very first Red think tank about the camera (Mid December 2005). I was the one who wrote all the early magazine articles about the proposed Red One camera and the new Red company (Studio Monthly, 2006). I was in the very first two guys who stepped up to reserve a Red One camera (April 2006). I received my first Red camera in the very first batch delivered on August 30, 2007 (Red 0008). I bought three more super early Red cameras after that and then pioneered the field use of Red cameras in many genres of production (1st Red 3D production, 1st water housing, 1st underwater footage, 1st multi-Red sports production, producing the first multi-Red field tests, and many more 1sts.)

I didn't see any of you who are complaining back in 2005, 2006, and 2007 doing the things I did, paying the dues I did, and heavily contributing to the early history of Red like I did. And now you don't think I deserve to be at the head of the line for Red products? Get real guys - I do deserve it, plain and simple. If you'd have contributed to Red what I have over these years, you'd deserve it too. Jim and Red have always, and always will, reward loyalty and the brave commitment of their clients - especially those of use who stepped forward and made a leap of faith in those formulate months and years. If you don't like that, well then maybe you should have stepped up like I did way back then. Right?
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Seriously, Gibby - don't you think that 90% of the people on Reduser would have "stepped up" the way you did if they were in your place?

You had personal associations with the folks in the RED team and the money to put down for a camera. Then you used the camera as much as possible and gave as much feedback as possible and were as awesome to them as you could be.

Me, for example... didn't personally know anyone from RED. I didn't have $1000 to put towards a reservation because I was in debt up to the hilt just trying to get a green card.

I shot on RED as much as I could and supported it as much as possible in the early days - in 2007 back before Redcine. Tried to get them stuff for their first reels, etc. Heck, even though I was had no money I still contributed towards that first test you did - (which you never released the footage for, but it benefitted RED so it was OK).

But you know where I am in line if I actually want to buy something from RED? Like number 10560.

Red is very democratic about its pricing. At the moment it is very much of a cool kids' club when it comes to actually getting anything though.

I'm sure that's not Jim's vision for the future. I really, really hope it isn't.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Goosfraba....

Goosfraba....

Reading this thread, I've come to realize that arguing about who deserves what is quite irrelevant.

RED appreciates its customers whether you are Steve Gibby or 10,590 in line to purchase RED products.This very website and forum as well as Jim's participation in it is a testament to that appreciation. (By the way Steve, to Ketch and you, congratulations on receiving and testing out Epic-M #0008, Joseph Hutson's video and your reactions to it really made me look forward to purchasing my own Epic.)

What all this boils down to is cutting edge technology. RED pushed the limits way beyond what anyone expected digital cinema to become. In fact, they pushed it so far that even they are struggling to keep up. Early adopters face issues with delays all the time especially when it comes to emerging technologies.

Jim was perfectly on point when he noted that "they had no idea what they were doing or how hard it was going to be". Having that stated by the head honcho clearly gives you an idea how frustrating it must be to have so many clients eagerly awaiting for this crucial piece of gear.

We have digital cinema technology we have no business getting our hands on until maybe a decade from now, but Jim and the contributions of countless others have made it possible for us to use today. Let's all remember what RED has given us in the past, let's remember that these delays are to be expected (technology aside, RED has had this happen before with other gear they offer, so I would think some would be used to it by now, to the point of factoring in whether they should make deposits without "written in stone" shipping dates), and let's also remember that constructive criticism helps more than you would expect in these types of situations.

What's done is done. Deposits have been made and that's probably why when the Bomb EVF actually starts shipping in mass quantities it will happen then and not 2 years from now. The delay with the Bomb EVF is something that is here and to be dealt with. Support RED by offering new ideas as to how to make the process of marketing, manufacturing and delivering much less of a pain for them. Add your knowledge to the growing database that is Reduser. Offer solutions not more problems.

I'm not trying to kiss anyone's ass or disrespect anyone. But I work with cameras made since before I was born and do it out of necessity, giving me a bit of perspective as to what RED has accomplished and what we should be thankful for. In the end, we are all just trying to get our hands on the best tools for our craft. Let's step back and take a deep breath and realize that this is only a minor speedbump in what is quickly becoming cinema history. RED camera owners are on the frontier of the future and literally everyone and everything else is still trying to catch up.

Didn't mean to write so much, just had a few things on my mind.
 
Bruce Allen said:
Seriously, Gibby - don't you think that 90% of the people on Reduser would have "stepped up" the way you did if they were in your place?

You had personal associations with the folks in the RED team and the money to put down for a camera. Then you used the camera as much as possible and gave as much feedback as possible and were as awesome to them as you could be. ?
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Ah yeah…but the fact remains that for whatever reason it wasn’t the 90% you’re referring to who stepped forward super early to support Red, it was me and a few other people. I had associations with the people on Red Team, and the money to put down on a camera, because I had already been working hard in this industry for 25 years before Jim ever told me about his ideas for Red. I had worked hard and created those relationships – they just didn’t fall in my lap all of a sudden. I moved quickly on Red, and after getting my Reds I shared tons of usage insight here and elsewhere about them, and gave my input back to Red.

Bruce Allen said:
Me, for example... didn't personally know anyone from RED. I didn't have $1000 to put towards a reservation because I was in debt up to the hilt just trying to get a green card. ?
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I understand, but you didn’t personally know anyone from Red because you hadn’t done what I had – 25 years by 2005 of working in this industry here in the USA. This business, like anyone else is about networking, contacts, and experience. I had all those going for me, and when an opportunity came up I was open-minded enough to pounce on it. I obviously had nothing to do with your not being in a position to get into Red early. I’m sorry you didn’t have the money to put toward a reservation. I was fortunate enough to have the funds, have those relationships, recognize an opportunity, and make a good decision to make a move on it. Everyone in this community is important, no matter when they adopted Red products. But later comers should naturally respect the contributions of those who came in early and have given countless hours to this community - when they didn't have to, they just do it in the spirit of helping others.

Bruce Allen said:
I shot on RED as much as I could and supported it as much as possible in the early days - in 2007 back before Redcine. Tried to get them stuff for their first reels, etc. Heck, even though I was had no money I still contributed towards that first test you did - (which you never released the footage for, but it benefitted RED so it was OK).

But you know where I am in line if I actually want to buy something from RED? Like number 10560. ).
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Everybody starts into something in their own time frame. When you discovered Red, if you then jumped in with both feet, that’s great. That’s what I did – but I just happened to be in the unique position to do it much earlier. I’m sure Red appreciates everyone’s enthusiasm and contributions. But the fact remains that those who jumped in earliest and contributed heavily hold a special place of respect with Red – and rightfully so. If you’re number 10,560 that’s a result of many factors – but that’s not my fault, and life and business life are sometimes just that way. Out of respect and empathy for Red User members who didn’t have the chance to get into Red early I’ve spent thousands of hours of my own time since early 2006 posting on Red User my insights, impressions, and photos of Red cameras in action. Why? Simply to be a giving person and open up the windows of real world Red usage info to all you guys who weren’t fortunate enough to get in early like me – guys like you Bruce. Then after that, I now I have to go through threads with guys questioning why I get equipment before them?

Bruce Allen said:
Red is very democratic about its pricing. At the moment it is very much of a cool kids' club when it comes to actually getting anything though.

I'm sure that's not Jim's vision for the future. I really, really hope it isn't.
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Yes, Red is very democratic about their pricing – but they’re also very democratic about the sequence of their delivery schedule – those who were in earliest get resultant consideration for each successive product – and in all fairness it should be that way. Unfortunately some who adopted Red products later feel a sense of resentment toward those who for whatever reason were able to get in early. They seem to feel a sense of entitlement that should place them even with those who came in early, and have supported this community heavily – and that’s not really very democratic now is it?

I can’t speak for Jim, but I do know that he is one of the most considerate, fair, and consistently giving businessmen I’ve ever met in my long career in this business. If he rewards early adopters with a slight edge in receiving successive products, assuming they sign up for them at the start, why must he be questioned on that? He’s already said a few posts earlier in this thread that he doesn’t want to have to justify each purchase – and then several more posters afterward go ahead and question him anyway.

I would have jumped back into this thread if my name wouldn’t have been pointed to with “Why’s Gibby getting his and I don’t have mine” complaints. We’re all a family here – lets stop acting like siblings pointing the finger at others, and just realize that Red has been unbelievably diligent in delivering their products as soon as they possibly could. They have all of our best interests in mind.
 
Thank you for the kind, and well though out words David. IMO you made some very good points...
 
Well said David. Personally, I'm happy to have someone like Gibby getting the early stuff, beating the hell out of it and letting us all know how it stood up to the task while I'm waiting in line. I put my deposit in, it'll come when it comes and until then I have no problems going out and shooting with my R1 as is.
 
Nobody said those words and nobody is saying Gibby is getting special dibs on everything. All I want as a supporter of Red is a little more transparency on where they stand. When I call up every other week and I'll I get is, 'we don't know' - That gets really frustrating.. I should have never sold the old EVF. My business mistake not Red's. However, it's been 7 months now since Red said BombEVFs were shipping out. I was one of the first to order when they went live on the store and I just keep waiting. We are human beings. We are allowed to get frustrated and angry. I'm not going to try and be happy about these delays because that's not how I feel. If Red doesn't want to hear it, fine, delete the post, carry on. I'll get it whenever and continue sub-renting and telling my clients to wait.
 
Christopher Barrett said:
Personally, I'm happy to have someone like Gibby getting the early stuff, beating the hell out of it and letting us all know how it stood up to the task while I'm waiting in line.
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Thanks Christopher. I know everyone is chomping at the bit to get their new stuff, like their Bomb EVF. Since I've usually been at the head of the pack to get things, I've always taken the time to take the stuff out, use it, then post my impressions of it along with pics. I do that by choice to help everyone else here who doesn't have their stuff yet. Hopefully for others that give insight and takes the sting out of waiting for stuff.
 
Christopher Barrett said:
Well said David. Personally, I'm happy to have someone like Gibby getting the early stuff, beating the hell out of it and letting us all know how it stood up to the task while I'm waiting in line. I put my deposit in, it'll come when it comes and until then I have no problems going out and shooting with my R1 as is.
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Agreed. Even though I'm not in pain, since I have my original EVF, haven't placed a Bomb EVF order and won't really need a new one until early Stage 3 time ... I feel very good about the way Red is handling things. Yes the delays suck, but their policy is spot on IMHO.

I mean ... in addition to everything that Gibby has said -- just look at the thread that he and Ketch have started and how much they are sharing (and it's only just beginning!) ... it's an obvious sign the camera went into the right hands. Also, I know Ketch well -- easily one of the kindest, most generous pros I've ever met and I know he's got some AMAZING things planned to share with us. Think about it for a sec ... I mean, here you have two guys with the world's hottest, most desirable camera -- and rather than go rent the package for for $3k or $4k per day ... what do they do? They go run tests, take photos, and make videos for US. To share! Amazing! And it's the same with Mark, though he got delayed a bit by the theft. I think it's incredible.

Red is doing the right thing putting the limited gear/cameras into the hands of not only highly/skilled talented people, but also immensely generous caring people who love giving back to Jim and the community.

There is no conspiracy ... Red cares and takes good care of ALL its customers. These are just growing pains and there's light at the end of the tunnel. For now, let's just be patient and enjoy the show :)
 
This thread has gone off the deep end. I know everyone is frustrated as we wait for the Bomb EVF's to slowly roll out to customers. There are people getting them, I know a few that have taken delivery. So they are indeed slowly trickling out. I don't know if they have made it through the entire back-log of those who ordered the old EVF yet. If you have issues, take it up with your RED Bomb Squad Representative.

In the mean time, we don't need to attack others, especially Gibby. He's been here since the beginning. I'm sorry if it rubs anyone the wrong way when he says he deserves it. The fact is, he does deserve it. He has had a part in RED's history and development. He has done nothing but support this community and the recent feedback about M008 is phenomenal. Many of us can't wait to see footage and anything else that he chooses to release from it. We're lucky to have guys like Steve Gibby and Mark L. Pederson at the front of the line, who take the time to share info and insights.
 
Rick Darge said:
nobody is saying Gibby is getting special dibs on everything.
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Good, because that hasn't been the case. Its true that I moved quickly in April 2006 by reserving my first Red camera (0008), but since then I've always kept my ear closely to the ground on when new products maybe coming out, and when they will be available for reservation.

We're friends that go way back. I understand you frustration, and hope it will end soon. Meanwhile keep in mind that Red has apologized many times on this thread for the delay in Bomb EVF shipping, and posted throughout this thread what the reason for each delay. They're doing the best they can under extenuating circumstances - I'm sure they'll solve the issues about the slow delivery soon and get them out as soon as they possibly can. The "All things are subject to change" disclaimer applies to everything - including delivery dates - but Red is tenacious and will get beyond this.
 
Thank you for those very thoughtful words Jeff and Anthony. I really appreciate the support. When I can find the time in my regular work schedule, I always try to remember to come here to contribute. I'm not privileged here - I was just somehow real fortunate to stumble across the opportunity to make a move on Red very early. I've always felt that along with that opportunity comes a responsibility to give back - which I've always done and always will do.

You guys are all family here - and you can count on me to always share with my family. I don't feel guilty if I get something early - I just then feel moved to then share insight, pics, and video to help ease the pain of waiting for others here.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
In the mean time, we don't need to attack others, especially Gibby.
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Totally agree if that happened but I must have missed the attack on Steve Gibby. I read where some people pointed the historical timeline of when he got his Bomb EVF(s) as a reference but didn't see a post where he was attacked or suggested that he didn't deserve to be an early tester/owner.

Did someone do that and the post was deleted?
 
Gibby, you are a strong man and deservedly so. I would have crumbled long ago. Keep up the excellent postings, they make my day.

Best, Peter
 
Thanks Peter...much appreciated. I'm way glad that something I posted has helped you. I have no plans to quit posting here on Red User - this is my 2nd home, and I'm happy to contribute whenever I can.

The Bomb EVF is small, lightweight, and very crisp - basically the best EVF I have used in my career, bar none. Its well worth waiting for, even though for many its been frustrating to wait.
 
I agree Jeff. He does deserve it. I think of those guys almost as beta testers. Im sure they are in constant contact with the RED team about how the products are performing so by the time we get them they are rock solid. Besides who is going to put the camera through more paces in the first week of ownership than Gibby? The shooting he has already done with M8 has been through a wide range of temperatures and altitudes. That's a guy I would want testing my gear!

His pictures and posts do help us know what to expect and help kill lots of time while we wait on our own stuff. He could just be anonymous and just enjoy the camera without having to listen to us. Thanks for not doing that man!

Besides, I just recently got the money to buy EPIC and I have never had enough to buy RED before. There is no reason to buy a RED ONE just to keep it for a few months now. So I'm behind ALL of you guys and I'm stuck with my EX1! You guys can still go shoot awesome R1 all day long. It doesn't bother me though.im fine with waiting.
 
Thanks Ryan...much appreciated :)

Yeah, me and the crew pushed Epic M8 really hard this week - and the Bomb EVF was a critical necessity for much of that work. There were some shot sequences where the 5" LCD with a hood was fine, but when I was shooting the skiiing and snowboarding, and lots of other shots, having the Bomb EVF was absolutely critical. Those kind of shots require you to hug up close to the tripod, right hand on the tripod handle, left hand on the lens to zoom and rack focus, and then just lock onto the action. Having your eye up to an EVF enables the rapid panning and tilting while tracking the action. If Red couldn't have shipped the Bomb EVF that was supposed to be in the Epic M package, my backup plan was to use my other Bomb EVF I received back in August - the one I've been using on Red One 0008 since then.

You're right - early adopters like me, Mark, Blair, Shawn, Dino, and many others have consistently given field use feedback to Red over these years - which has helped Red get a good handle on how their products are working in real world situations. I've been beta testing equipment for a variety of manufacturers throughout most of my career. It helps me, helps the manufacturers, and helps those who read about it. Everyone wins...
 
Hey Gibby. I've been so busy reading and oohing and aahing over the shots that I haven't posted on any of the threads involving 008. Just wanted to add my voice of thanks to you and Ketch and Joseph et al for all you're doing to try and break the camera and Bomb EVF (and failing gloriously I'm pleased to say). There can be no doubt whatsoever that the guys you list, guys first in line for new Red gear not only deserve to be there but provide so much more valuable feedback to both Red and fellow users like us that anyone complaining needs a rethink. You've already put 008 through more extremes than any camera I buy will probably ever see. Thanks man. Thanks heaps!
 
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