Deakin's May Not Use Film Again?

[Paul Steinberg]

Spend any time with an Alexa and you'll see why it's highly sought after. It doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles but it..just...works. Great dynamic range and an easy workflow that doesn't require post-debayer'ing so you don't need a Rocket card or heavy processing power to edit the stuff. You can't overlook Arri's industry standard accessories that actually exist, that you can actually buy, that they actually ship them when you order them and that allows you to actually work efficiently and actually get paid. In the end, that's what you need out of a camera.

Brennan, I was just taking a cheap shot at the lack of any viewfinder and recording media besides CF cards for Red. It's unclear if Arri will actually produce the AlexaOV after seeing how well their electronic viewfinder has been received.

 

[Clint Lealos]

Spend any time with an Alexa and you'll see why it's highly sought after. It doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles but it..just...works. Great dynamic range and an easy workflow that doesn't require post-debayer'ing so you don't need a Rocket card or heavy processing power to edit the stuff. You can't overlook Arri's industry standard accessories that actually exist, that you can actually buy, that they actually ship them when you order them and that allows you to actually work efficiently and actually get paid. In the end, that's what you need out of a camera.

Brennan, I was just taking a cheap shot at the lack of any viewfinder and recording media besides CF cards for Red. It's unclear if Arri will actually produce the AlexaOV after seeing how well their electronic viewfinder has been received.

Here we go again.

 

[Carsten Fenstermacher]

Spend any time with an Alexa and you'll see why it's highly sought after. It doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles but it..just...works. Great dynamic range and an easy workflow that doesn't require post-debayer'ing so you don't need a Rocket card or heavy processing power to edit the stuff. You can't overlook Arri's industry standard accessories that actually exist, that you can actually buy, that they actually ship them when you order them and that allows you to actually work efficiently and actually get paid. In the end, that's what you need out of a camera.

Brennan, I was just taking a cheap shot at the lack of any viewfinder and recording media besides CF cards for Red. It's unclear if Arri will actually produce the AlexaOV after seeing how well their electronic viewfinder has been received.

I can't get past how soft alexa looks. Non-starter for me.
dynamic range is my job to control. Detail is something I can't
add if it starts out soft and looks out of focus. I may be
spoiled by resolution on mx but i got the same from film.
Alexa feels much like a grainless 16mm.

 

[Philipe Ratton]

Deakins and Robert Richardson

 

[Peter Moretti]

Disagree!

First, no offense but I can't see Deakins even as the best British living cinematographer
...

I don't see what people are getting so worked up about? You are saying he's not the best living cinematographer, British or otherwise. A perfectly reasonable stance to take.

And you say "First, no offense." I don't find this offensive in the least.

 

[mike ogden]

Sanjin does it again :huh:

 

[James T Mather]

Disagree!

First, no offense but I can't see Deakins even as the best British living cinematographer

The mind boggles.

 

[Oliver Peters]

Roger Deakins on RED and Alexa:

"There has been a lot of 'banter' about the two camera systems and sometimes it
becomes quite partisan. Much of what I read is not the same as the information I
am being given by experienced camera technicians in whom I have absolute trust.

I am told that the Red and Alexa have exactly the same sensor but each uses it
to gather data in a different way. The Red team has biased their camera for
optimum resolution by using an array of smaller pixels, whereas Arri has biased
their camera towards optimum colour depth and latitude through a use of slightly
larger 'more sensitive' pixels. Apparently, it is not possible to do both at
this time and with this same sensor.

From the images I have seen I believe that the Alexa does indeed have better
colour rendition and greater image detail in the highlights and shadows. On the
other hand I wouldn't say the image it produces appears any less sharp than that
of the Red even though it does in theory deliver an image with less resolution.
The falloff from a highlight into a shadow area would seem superior to me.
I am not experienced with the Red at all so I only say this in respect of the
films I have seen that were shot on that camera. I have seen the Red viewfinder
and I wouldn't say it was any better than the electronic viewfinder on the
Alexa. Neither is a substitute for an optical finder. As for as the camera
system itself, I would say that the Alexa is a better design. It looks and feels
like a film camera but one that is both simple to use and lightweight. For me,
there did not seem a large learning curve from using a 535B to using the Alexa.

I have been a user of Arri cameras all my career so I must also admit to being
somewhat partisan. However, I have now been shooting with the Alexa for some
months and I have only been impressed by the camera's capabilities.

I'm sure I will be shot down for writing this post. I am not a technical person
and I, frankly, don't understand the technology as well as most of the people
who post on this site. In the same way that some cameramen prefer Panavision to
Arri cameras or Fuji to Kodak emulsion, some will prefer the Red over the Alexa.
That's not the same as saying one is actually 'better' than another. However, I
do know what my eye tells me."

This was posted to his own forum
(deakinsonline.com).

http://www.deakinsonline.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1672

- Oliver

 

[Brennan Klensch]

Roger Deakins on RED and Alexa:

"There has been a lot of 'banter' about the two camera systems and sometimes it
becomes quite partisan. Much of what I read is not the same as the information I
am being given by experienced camera technicians in whom I have absolute trust.

I am told that the Red and Alexa have exactly the same sensor but each uses it
to gather data in a different way. The Red team has biased their camera for
optimum resolution by using an array of smaller pixels, whereas Arri has biased
their camera towards optimum colour depth and latitude through a use of slightly
larger 'more sensitive' pixels. Apparently, it is not possible to do both at
this time and with this same sensor.

From the images I have seen I believe that the Alexa does indeed have better
colour rendition and greater image detail in the highlights and shadows. On the
other hand I wouldn't say the image it produces appears any less sharp than that
of the Red even though it does in theory deliver an image with less resolution.
The falloff from a highlight into a shadow area would seem superior to me.
I am not experienced with the Red at all so I only say this in respect of the
films I have seen that were shot on that camera. I have seen the Red viewfinder
and I wouldn't say it was any better than the electronic viewfinder on the
Alexa. Neither is a substitute for an optical finder. As for as the camera
system itself, I would say that the Alexa is a better design. It looks and feels
like a film camera but one that is both simple to use and lightweight. For me,
there did not seem a large learning curve from using a 535B to using the Alexa.

I have been a user of Arri cameras all my career so I must also admit to being
somewhat partisan. However, I have now been shooting with the Alexa for some
months and I have only been impressed by the camera's capabilities.

I'm sure I will be shot down for writing this post. I am not a technical person
and I, frankly, don't understand the technology as well as most of the people
who post on this site. In the same way that some cameramen prefer Panavision to
Arri cameras or Fuji to Kodak emulsion, some will prefer the Red over the Alexa.
That's not the same as saying one is actually 'better' than another. However, I
do know what my eye tells me."

This was posted to his own forum
(deakinsonline.com).

http://www.deakinsonline.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1672

- Oliver

Great find thanks! But really, again, he's only had experience working with a Red, probably Red MX, which, yes, I realize they are the same sensor, but the features that expand the Epic past it are definitely giving his criteria for the Alexa a run for it's money, especially latitude. And if the goal is to get a flat image for post work (which, he does like btw, just read more over at his forum) that is an "organic image," then, again, with 18 stops of latitude, i think that's about as flat as we can get

The other points that someone else said about egronomics and what not, of course, sure, that's a very subjective stance. Please don't think i was ATTEMPTING to start and Alexa vs Red debate here, though I did want to explore the idea of someone like Roger getting a hold of an Epic and if this would perhaps change perceptions Yes i'm an unashamed Red Fanboy

But honestly, I guess my stance always considers budget as a huge factor, so ingrained in me that I naturally assume shoestring mentality. I know i shouldn't, but I guess in the end I can't justify spending loads of money on one product, when the much more financially conservative alternative is at worst an equal competitor.

I think it all comes from a root desire to see what my favorite D.P.'s can pull out of my favorite camera company I really want to see those results

Now, Scarlet, sure, i could see this still being more of a comparison, but, again, we're talking the step down from the Epic, and even scarlet i believe will give alexa a run for it's money.

Does the workflow seam together nicely? I believe everyone when they say yes, i've never worked in it or with it so i can't say personally, but, again, spending money on a Red Rocket (about 5K to be exact, not ironic pun intended) still comes up WAY in front of the alexa in the financial finish line, and the workflow is amazing with the Red as long as you do it right.

And trust me, this is all coming from a guy who, if you look at my earlier posts, needed to be convinced why a D-21 was not as good as an MX

 

[sergio arguello]

Spend any time with an Alexa and you'll see why it's highly sought after. It doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles but it..just...works. Great dynamic range and an easy workflow that doesn't require post-debayer'ing so you don't need a Rocket card or heavy processing power to edit the stuff. You can't overlook Arri's industry standard accessories that actually exist, that you can actually buy, that they actually ship them when you order them and that allows you to actually work efficiently and actually get paid. In the end, that's what you need out of a camera.

Brennan, I was just taking a cheap shot at the lack of any viewfinder and recording media besides CF cards for Red. It's unclear if Arri will actually produce the AlexaOV after seeing how well their electronic viewfinder has been received.

Paul,

with all due respect i beg to differ in opinion. Ive had the opportunity to use and we have 3 now and waiting for 8 more at our rental facility. Now it doesnt just plain work. It has bugs that pop up every now and again, but its no different than any other
computer based electronic item. My iphone4 needs a reboot every now and again. As for Rocket card not needed, well lets hope you dont as 90% of the
use of the Alexa is ending with a 1080p prores codec as a final. IMHO the camera is the D21 in a new box yet has a new (lovely) sensor.
Secondly, we have been piecemealed cameras as they come available, so your theory about Order/ship is untrue.Nothing personal, but i remember Red getting the reputation for great marketing ,but Arri is right there now. I for one love the company and have a long relationship with them, but as a company they are too lathargic and smug to realize what direction the industry seems to be turning. To film 2k raw the cost will exceed 140,000us, and thats pasé as even Sony has plans to record in 4k and eventual 8k.

 

[Steve G]

http://www.movieweb.com/movie/true-grit/cinematography-featurette

 

[Paul Steinberg]

Paul,

with all due respect i beg to differ in opinion. Ive had the opportunity to use and we have 3 now and waiting for 8 more at our rental facility. Now it doesnt just plain work. It has bugs that pop up every now and again, but its no different than any other
computer based electronic item. My iphone4 needs a reboot every now and again. As for Rocket card not needed, well lets hope you dont as 90% of the
use of the Alexa is ending with a 1080p prores codec as a final. IMHO the camera is the D21 in a new box yet has a new (lovely) sensor.
Secondly, we have been piecemealed cameras as they come available, so your theory about Order/ship is untrue.Nothing personal, but i remember Red getting the reputation for great marketing ,but Arri is right there now. I for one love the company and have a long relationship with them, but as a company they are too lathargic and smug to realize what direction the industry seems to be turning. To film 2k raw the cost will exceed 140,000us, and thats pasé as even Sony has plans to record in 4k and eventual 8k.

Sorry Sergio, I based my statement from my experience with Arri Canada. The guy down the street has had his full Alexa package for some time. The whole she-bang, no missing parts. I had my name on the reserved list and would have had my camera in hand about a month ago, again the full package. A friend of mine ordered his about a week ago and it's in his hands (missing a couple power cables). It seemed that Arri wanted to spread the delivery of the cameras out between rental houses and owner operators so the rental houses have received a few in this city and now the independents are receiving theirs.

1920x1080 Prores would be A-ok for the work I do. 100% of it is for television. Log-C has lots of info to be mined out of it, not as much as ArriRaw, but it's clean and simple and requires a lot less computing horsepower. Sadly I often need to shoot frame rates higher than 60fps and the Alexa will never do that.