Scarlet fixed DSMC

[David Rasberry]

We have a new Canon 24" ip655 Prograph printer at work for cad prints.

Just for grins today I graded a frame from the Scarlet Felix clip in sRGB color and gamma, saved it as a 16 bit tiff, and printed it out of PS full size at 150 dpi, roughly a 20" x 11" print. It looks damn good considering it was printed on coated plotter bond, not glossy photo paper.

Don't let anyone tell you this little gem won't work for stills. At modest print sizes it will put many higher pixel count cameras to shame. The print has a very lovely organic texture to it and resolved Felix's fine hair without a hint of aliasing.

 

[Patrik Kisucky]

Thanks David for this post. I'm planning on buying 8x, and I'm looking forward to having a great cam, and use it for some great stills once in a while. I was wondering why would some people predict that this camera wouldn't be very good for stills.

 

[Michael Olsen]

Thanks David for this post. I'm planning on buying 8x, and I'm looking forward to having a great cam, and use it for some great stills once in a while. I was wondering why would some people predict that this camera wouldn't be very good for stills.

I think that depends on what you mean by "very good". 2/3" size has limitations compared to the FF35 format before even talking about resolution.

That being said, the work from Felix was very impressive. I actually have a nice tiff that I'm going to have printed to an 8x10.

 

[David Rasberry]

I still have a closet full of medium format film cameras. So I do understand the practical and aesthetic limitations of a 2/3" 5Mp format camera intended primarily for motion shooting. But Scarlet will stretch those boundaries a bit. Can't wait to see just how far.

 

[Patrik Kisucky]

How would the 3K resolution of Scarlet 8x translate to the pictures? Will the 2/3 sensor's limitation primarily be DOF and low light ability? What else am I missing?

 

[Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig]

How would the 3K resolution of Scarlet 8x translate to the pictures? Will the 2/3 sensor's limitation primarily be DOF and low light ability? What else am I missing?

I don't see DOF as a limitation in the Scarlet's case. With 35mm sensors, you have to stay in focus and focus pulling is a full time job.

Most of HDSLR videos are out of focus and when it's in focus it doesn't stay enough longer to shoot what's really happening.

 

[David Rasberry]

How would the 3K resolution of Scarlet 8x translate to the pictures? Will the 2/3 sensor's limitation primarily be DOF and low light ability? What else am I missing?

I think the low light capability of Scarlet will surprise people.

For an idea of what a 2/3" 5mp camera can look like check out the Leica Digilux 2 group photos at Flickr.
Scarlet will have several generations of improvement in sensor and electronics by comparison.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=leica+digilux+2&w=all&m=&s=int&mt=&referer_searched=

 

[Derek S.]

I don't see DOF as a limitation in the Scarlet's case. With 35mm sensors, you have to stay in focus and focus pulling is a full time job.

Most of HDSLR videos are out of focus and when it's in focus it doesn't stay enough longer to shoot what's really happening.

If the shallow DOF will come a problem with 35mm size sensor, you can always stop down to get same deeper DOF as with 16mm sensor. The downside is that need to turn the ISO up but what I've heard it's not problem with EPIC since the noise level is pretty low. Noise is not problem with 7D or 5D either, so I would guess EPIC can do well too.

On the other hand, you can't get the same shallow DOF with 16mm you get with 35mm.

The reason why those DSLR videos are out of focus is that people are shooting with too small F stop for their skill level as a focus puller.

 

[Patrik Kisucky]

I don't see DOF as a limitation in the Scarlet's case. With 35mm sensors, you have to stay in focus and focus pulling is a full time job.

By limitation I meant less DOF, less pixels, or smaller pixels, which translates to to final quality of the image, right?

 

[Patrik Kisucky]

I think the low light capability of Scarlet will surprise people.

For an idea of what a 2/3" 5mp camera can look like check out the Leica Digilux 2 group photos at Flickr.
Scarlet will have several generations of improvement in sensor and electronics by comparison.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=leica+digilux+2&w=all&m=&s=int&mt=&referer_searched=

Thanks David, those pics look pretty good to me. I agree, I'm expecting (hoping) these new sensors will work like a charm)).

 

[Derek S.]

We have a new Canon 24" ip655 Prograph printer at work for cad prints.

Just for grins today I graded a frame from the Scarlet Felix clip in sRGB color and gamma, saved it as a 16 bit tiff, and printed it out of PS full size at 150 dpi, roughly a 20" x 11" print. It looks damn good considering it was printed on coated plotter bond, not glossy photo paper.

Don't let anyone tell you this little gem won't work for stills. At modest print sizes it will put many higher pixel count cameras to shame. The print has a very lovely organic texture to it and resolved Felix's fine hair without a hint of aliasing.

It will work for stills, just like all the cheapest DSLR's, but you ain't gonna use them for serious work. Plus the sensor size is way too small for photography. If you show up to photoshoot with Scarlet, that will be the last shoot for you.

 

[Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig]

If you show up to photoshoot with Scarlet, that will be the last shoot for you.

Most of photographers always use multiple cameras, and in several situations they also carry a videocamera. Scarlet is a nice addition for a pro backpack with the other mandatory tools.

 

[Derek S.]

Most of photographers always use multiple cameras, and in several situations they also carry a videocamera. Scarlet is a nice addition for a pro backpack with the other mandatory tools.

Sports and event photographers do have two bodies because they don't have time to change lenses, but people who shoot planned shots don't. They have one body in the studio or on the location they use.

 

[David Rasberry]

Scarlet would not be the best professional choice for a primary still camera any more than a Canon SLR makes a good choice for a primary motion camera. The primary intended use is for motion. But event photographers shooting Scarlets for video for example could easily extract acceptable candid stills from the raw motion files for those happy accidents that the stills guy missed and not be ashamed to include them in the book.
Epic is certainly in a different class altogether.

 

[Patrik Kisucky]

Scarlet would not be the best professional choice for a primary still camera any more than a Canon SLR makes a good choice for a primary motion camera. The primary intended use is for motion. But event photographers shooting Scarlets for video for example could easily extract acceptable candid stills from the raw motion files for those happy accidents that the stills guy missed and not be ashamed to include them in the book.
Epic is certainly in a different class altogether.

Would there be a difference between taking one frame out of the the footage recorded, compared it to a still pic?

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Would there be a difference between taking one frame out of the the footage recorded, compared it to a still pic?

From what I've read, no.

"EPIC offers a two menu setup, prioritized for still or motion, or you can extract still from motion at any time, by placing a metadata tag with the push of a button. Shoot a 2 second burst and pick the image you want from the 240 captured, or let the camera's software do the work."

I can't see Scarlet working any differently. I guess (hope) the difference in stills mode is that it would offer features that are not applicable to cinema footage, such as auto-bracketing several stops either way.

Mike

 

[David Rasberry]

Would there be a difference between taking one frame out of the the footage recorded, compared it to a still pic?

The major thing you will encounter extracting stills from motion is motion blur in some frames depending on how high the shutter speed is.
You guys all really need to try this for yourself.

Download Redcine-X 356e and the Felix 26 frame clip from the Scarlet fixed. Install it on a Mac or PC. Try some grading, save a frame out as a tiff and print it.

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=705667&postcount=89

 

[Patrik Kisucky]

The major thing you will encounter extracting stills from motion is motion blur in some frames depending on how high the shutter speed is.
You guys all really need to try this for yourself.

Download Redcine-X 356e and the Felix 26 frame clip from the Scarlet fixed. Install it on a Mac or PC. Try some grading, save a frame out as a tiff and print it.

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=705667&postcount=89

Thank You, will do. This is going to be my first mini RED Work Flow experience.

 

[Anthony Cote]

The major thing you will encounter extracting stills from motion is motion blur in some frames depending on how high the shutter speed is.
You guys all really need to try this for yourself.

Download Redcine-X 356e and the Felix 26 frame clip from the Scarlet fixed. Install it on a Mac or PC. Try some grading, save a frame out as a tiff and print it.

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=705667&postcount=89

this is exactly what I did. The video quality is of course exceptional. I grabbed a shot in redcine-x and saved it as a tiff. opened it in Photoshop and it looked great. I don't have any nice photo paper right now. . . but I don't doubt for 11 x 20 or 8 x 10 the Scarlet will make great images. And my photos I usually upload to flickr for everybody to see, and 5mp for the web is just perfect.

I want a digital cinema camera first, a decent raw photo camera second

 

[Steven Caesare]

So.. with the advent of HDRx™, it's demonstrated that it's possible to read the sensor more than once prior to a reset.

Thus, while the overall shutter speed might be 1/48th sec for normal footage, the sensor could be read signficantly faster than that. If the 5ms read-reset time of the M-X sensor is the upper speed limit, than that implies 1/200th of exposure is possible. (Of course, the smaller Scarlet sensor might be capable of being read faster, but I don't know what the limiting factor is... perhaps even faster than 5ms is possible on the EPIC platform).

So, I wonder if it would be possible for the cameras to extract a single still at a FASTER shutter speed without disrupting the normal 24p video stream? In other words: you could have a sperate stills shutter speed set such that if you did the button half-depress trick, or switched the camera to stills mode (via Redmote or side-handle switch) you can grab a still that's even crisper than the normal 24p frame grabs we are seeing today?

-Steve