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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

sony

Did I hear him right...at 1:30 - ish into the presentation...seeing some "stuff" in Japan coming this way...Is he for real...uh...hello...
 
When you speek with some company reps from other companies, it basically sounds like red never happened...

It's not like it's "bad" or "uninteresting", it just never happened.

RED only becomes insufficient, bad or uninteresting, if you really insist that you have tried one, and that it worked...
 
Gunleik Groven said:
When you speek with some company reps from other companies, it basically sounds like red never happened...

It's not like it's "bad" or "uninteresting", it just never happened.

RED only becomes insufficient, bad or uninteresting, if you really insist that you have tried one, and that it worked...
Click to expand...

Sounds kind of like when you mention DSLRs or such around redusers... :tongue:

Seriously though, Q67 looks pretty innovative. Wonder if we'll ever see that pixel geometry in displays... ? Cause even now if you shoot Red 4k, film, whatever... there's still aliasing and artifacting by the time it hits blu-ray. Not that it really bothers me though...
 
Jack Cooper said:
Did I hear him right...at 1:30 - ish into the presentation...seeing some "stuff" in Japan coming this way...Is he for real...uh...hello...
Click to expand...
I thought I heard "gadget" too?
 
Bryce O said:
Sounds kind of like when you mention DSLRs or such around redusers... :tongue:
Click to expand...

LOL

I have tried to be ballanced in my views... :-))

But I have spent some time trying to fix the unfixable for... let's say... enthustiastic users...
 
While q67 seems interesting, can it be delivered at a competitive price like the RED/Epic...
 
Q67 is a new name for something old - the Bayer pattern rotated 45degrees. When used with a full demosaic it's no better than a Bayer pattern other than having to deal with the hassle of converting all algorithms to work on rotated data, and at worst, with the type of algorithm Sony are proposing, has lower resolution for a higher pixel count, and all things being equal would lead to a lower DR through smaller pixels.

Graeme
 
upconverting 2k to 4k... good luck with that. it's like upconverting SD to 2k...


i love how 3-4 years ago, 4k made no sense everybody thought it was crazy. now it's 2011, now it's inevitable, and everybody is on the bandwagon now...
 
Bryce O said:
... there's still aliasing and artifacting by the time it hits blu-ray.
Click to expand...

I think you're confusing compression issues with those of the sensor. Before we got our screen and I tried projecting onto the wall, our Red One had some really bad artifacting, just near where the doorway used to be. Must've been fixed by a firmware update just when we got the screen.:biggrin5:
 
Digression alert

Digression alert

Just trying to imagine how many drafts were written to make sure every aspect of the presentation made the Sony solutions look like the better option. Funny how Sony can eradicate the "noise problem" in CMOS tech when nobody else can :crazy:. To be fair, Sony has led the way in on camera DSP for many years and, from a strict engineering perspective, regularly outperformed Panasonic in similar class products (strangely enough the Pannys often had "prettier", even if less accurate images).

One thing that was mentioned was the need for mezzanine codecs for enabling reasonably cost effective 4K post. For about the 6th time on this forum I beg RED to step up and offer an option for a read/write codec that supports 4K at data rates under 400MBytes/sec (thats 3.2 Gbits/sec, roughly 4 times the current SR-HQ rate and in line with the level 5 & 6 implementations noted in the Sony preso). 10 bit log DPX does not justify its storage demands, particularly with linear data as the source, and is too cumbersome for 4K.

In any case, it is exciting to see Sony getting more involved with 4K and I look forward to an affordable 4K OLED monitor any day now :tongue:

Cheers - #19
 
I really like the words he uses… e.g. "this is a very crazy memory"

back to topic; I think competition is a good thing, and also different approaches to archive something are a good thing (if it turns out to be not as good as expected you can at least learn from it for future products - and Sony is not a company that will die instantly if they make a wrong decision at one point)… so - why not. It doesn't look bad. It is interesting. And it will push the industry a little bit towards working with higher resolutions just because higher resolutions will be available on a broader basis. Which means in the end there is more demand for better displays, projectors and so on to view this stuff. In a certain way everyone shooting high resolution video will profit a little bit - regardless of his attempt how to do things. For now I'm on a camera that shoots up to 4.5k and on lower resolutions up to 120 frames… I'm fine with it, still some work to do to get used to the workflow but a good starting point for doing things that were impossible on the same budget just a few years ago. I'm confident for the stuff we'll see a few years ahead from now - from all the different companies out there (and RED is not doing bad at all as we all know).
 
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I don't think Sony Engineers would do a "pointless 45 degree rotation." It must have some benefits or why would they go through "the hassle of converting all algorithms to work on rotated data." There has to be something to that design that is worthwhile to pursue. Engineers, regardless of employer, don't design things for not reason. They do it to solve certain problems. Sure there are trade offs for a lot of the design aspects of cameras and it's finding a balance between them all and figuring out ways to try to overcome some of those trade offs. A 45 degree rotation sounds like it gives you more color information.

Stop poo pooing everything others are doing so quickly, until you actually see the results. This is the mantra most of us try to live by and have to repeat again and again on these forums when it comes to new cameras. So I guess it's my turn to say it, unfortunately it's to one of the lead engineers at a camera company.

If Sony outperforms Red in resolution then Red has to come up with a way to outperform Sony. I think with Epic the form factor is a great design aspect that trumps everyone else when it comes to 3D shoots. So use that as a marketing point. So what if you can't use resolution as your big selling point anymore. I'm not concerned with that as much as I am with form factor/functionality, reliability, DR, and sensitivity anyways and I know a lot of others are the same way.
 
Adam S said:
I don't think Sony Engineers would do a "pointless 45 degree rotation." It must have some benefits or why would they go through "the hassle of converting all algorithms to work on rotated data." There has to be something to that design that is worthwhile to pursue. Engineers, regardless of employer, don't design things for not reason. They do it to solve certain problems. Sure there are trade offs for a lot of the design aspects of cameras and it's finding a balance between them all and figuring out ways to try to overcome some of those trade offs. A 45 degree rotation sounds like it gives you more color information.

Stop poo pooing everything others are doing so quickly, until you actually see the results. This is the mantra most of us try to live by and have to repeat again and again on these forums when it comes to new cameras. So I guess it's my turn to say it, unfortunately it's to one of the lead engineers at a camera company.

If Sony outperforms Red in resolution then Red has to come up with a way to outperform Sony. I think with Epic the form factor is a great design aspect that trumps everyone else when it comes to 3D shoots. So use that as a marketing point. So what if you can't use resolution as your big selling point anymore. I'm not concerned with that as much as I am with form factor/functionality, reliability, DR, and sensitivity anyways and I know a lot of others are the same way.
Click to expand...


Niceone...

So where can I shoot that 4k rez that outperforms RED currently?

Let's just wait and see.

The comparative studies will come as soon as they are possible to do, don't you think.
 
My favorite line is "A Bayer pattern sensor can only resolve 30-38% of it's pixels" I think that's what he said.
 
Did he forget what the purpose of good debayer olgorithm is? Epic doesn't exist for them.

Pat

PS: didn't know I had so many dead pixels!
 

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Looks like they are looking in to 17MP sensor.

EPIC 5K in 16:9 screen mode is also 17MP
They turn the pixel mask 45deg and put the same amount of R and G and B pixels on it.

Well old story new enclosure. We will see what they will do with 17MP now.

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