Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Bug: B7-Storm's XML Misses StartTC And Audio Tracks

H

Hans von Sonntag

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
1,968
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Website
www.hubbertvonsonntag.com
Hi,

Storm is developing a lot. The new Beta7 seems to be almost production ready. Thanks for that!

This is my request:

I finish all my projects in Smoke on Mac, often do a rough cut in FCP and then conform the XML in Smoke.

Now, Storm's XML is readable in Smoke, which is huge because Adobe Premier Pro's XML is not, I have to roundtrip via FCP to generate a usable XML, this is tedious and includes many things done by hand.

While conforming in FCP works, it's not in Smoke but very close, I think.

For conforming in Smoke the XML needs these additional data: start TC (usually 00:00:00:00) and missing Audio information which is: 4 channels, 16 bit, 48000 Hz. I cannot alter the XML in Smoke but maybe in a text editor. I let you know my results in this regard.

Storm could be THE preparing/syncing/offline/selecting takes/rough edit tool for Smoke.

Thanks for listening and bringing Storm to life.

Hans

EDIT: Storm is not yet production ready, at least for me. See the http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54239
 
Last edited:
Mark, this is a short question that leads to a long, long answer. But I try to keep it short.

To be on par with Smoke Storm lacks this:

1. Full NLE Interface, think AVID.

2. 3D compositor, think AE.

3. World class Keyer, think Nuke's abilities but IMHO faster.

4. Text tool, think AE

5. Paint tool, think Nuke

6. Colour manipulation, while not RT think Scratch, SpeedGrade, etc...

7. Conforming, think Scratch.

8. Archiving, think second to none.

And if you know Flame, think Flame without Batch (node based compositing like Nuke) but with an in-build Avid.

Storm has a long way to go to come even close to Smoke. No wonder. Smoke has always been one of the premium tools in the industry and quite long around.

BUT, there are some things inside Storm which Smoke cannot do, such as batch render single shots off a timeline plus - and this huge to me - a short, flat learning curve.

Storm is a great tool that allows directors and producers to select shots, sync sound (could be even easier) and perform a rough edit without the knowledge of an editor. Then conform the rough timeline into Smoke and let the artists to their magic.

IMHO, Storm in the moment seems to be target towards DITs/Red techs but in the near future (think, Scarlet) there will be thousands of filmmakers who won't have the budget to book a Red tech. With some colour presets, automatic sound synching and great XML export (almost there) Storm will be THE companion for Red.

Thinking about this, an up gradable modular approach to keep Storm as easy and budget-concious on the one hand and one the other hand for the advanced user a power horse with extra modules (think Scratach) would make sense. Any thoughts?



Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
For conforming in Smoke the XML needs these additional data: start TC (usually 00:00:00:00) and Audio information which is: 4 channels, 16 bit, 48000 Hz. I cannot alter in XML in Smoke maybe in a text editor, I let you know my results in this regard.
Click to expand...

Manually altering Storm's XML takes longer than conforming in FCP and from there exporting a new XML for finally conforming the whole lot in Smoke.

But if you compare Storm's XML with an FCP XML of the same timeline you see that only a few things have to be added (see above) to make a straight conform to Smoke happen. I also belief that other online tools that may already swallow FCP XMLs would benefit from a preferably identical XML to FCP's original as well. IMHO, the FCP XML will displace in the near future more and more the EDL.

Hans
 
Hans

I have to agree with your list
Smokes Color warper,tracker and editing features are why its used heavily in commercials,broadcast and film (besides Flame)

I am using a similar workflow with Smoke for finish from FCP and Nuke/AE for comps.

Alot of us on the alpha team have been giving tons of feedback from those of use using Smoke,Nuke and other apps for having Storm be well rounded.

Once we get it where we have support for alot more RAW workflows and camerasa solid media mang backbone and vfx tools found in Nuke it will be a force to be reckon with.
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
Hi,

Storm could be THE preparing/syncing/offline/selecting takes/rough edit tool for Smoke.

Hans
Click to expand...

Second Hans request. We are using Storm to prepare for finishing in Smoke. Have been resisting Smoke and trying to round trip with different applications. Just too tedious for managing people with different skill sets for fast turnaround TVC jobs. Lim
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
IMHO, the FCP XML will displace in the near future more and more the EDL.
Click to expand...

Good heavens, let's hope something better than that becomes the standard. FCP's XML is a mess if you look at it. There's no proper relationship between clips and timeline events (in fact, Apple does not seem to understand the difference). Bins are described differently in different situations, or sometimes don't even exist. There's no central list of clips (footage) used in the project. The description of transitions is wonky, with nonsensical In and Out points. The "master clip ID" sometimes refers to a "master clip", and sometimes indicates that something IS a master clip. There are file references stored inside timeline events, which must be propagated around if you split the event and then delete the one that contains the file reference... lots of design problems here.

There are standards out there, designed by professionals with editing experience. I remember looking at AAF a long time ago and thinking that they had the basic relationships right. I would think there's an XML editing standard out there besides FCP, and if I were more motivated I'd look for it...
 
Palmer Woodrow said:
Good heavens, let's hope something better than that becomes the standard. FCP's XML is a mess if you look at it. There's no proper relationship between clips and timeline events (in fact, Apple does not seem to understand the difference). Bins are described differently in different situations, or sometimes don't even exist. There's no central list of clips (footage) used in the project. The description of transitions is wonky, with nonsensical In and Out points. The "master clip ID" sometimes refers to a "master clip", and sometimes indicates that something IS a master clip. There are file references stored inside timeline events, which must be propagated around if you split the event and then delete the one that contains the file reference... lots of design problems here.

There are standards out there, designed by professionals with editing experience. I remember looking at AAF a long time ago and thinking that they had the basic relationships right. I would think there's an XML editing standard out there besides FCP, and if I were more motivated I'd look for it...
Click to expand...

LOL!!!

Even though I am not an XML hacker, I can recognize on behaviour every single of your points.

Which has had me think for a while, that this is probably where the big upgrade of the next FCP will be.

Maybe they'll fix quicktime, too, but this is even more significant...
 
Hijacking my own thread...

Just thinking loudly:

When film was my main media we had to transfer the footage to video via telecine. On the Pogel we created a look that headed in the right direction but was rather moderate than extreme. Later on the Flame we tweaked the colour and contrast here and there to achieve the final look.

Storm can be the new telecine and more. You can create a look that is a good base for Smoke or any other finishing system, making a multi-layer colour correction obsolete and saving a lot of time. Such a workflow works well with TVC and other projects that demand high quality but are short in runtime. Currently we do this with SpeedGrade but obviously this is an overkill.

For long form projects you may want to use Storm to select takes, synch audio and create FCP XMLs with nice looking off-line footage that represent a chapter or a scene with alternative shots. When editing is done chapter by chapter can be imported into Storm and high resolving DPX based footage can be exported with a base grade or when desired with a log gamma for finishing in one of the common grading tools.

Either way a straight conform to Smoke would be brilliant.

Hans
 
Palmer Woodrow said:
There are standards out there, designed by professionals with editing experience. I remember looking at AAF a long time ago and thinking that they had the basic relationships right. I would think there's an XML editing standard out there besides FCP, and if I were more motivated I'd look for it...
Click to expand...

Obviously you know more than I do. But AAF conform in Smoke is not working as expected but FCP XML is, for what ever reason. And it works also well with Premier Pro and other conforming tools. Apple's FCP XML is now at Vers. 5. It looks like that Apple is developing and improving their XML. Also, AFAIK, it's well documented.

Either way, there is no real alternative out there and if, it must come from one of the big As.

This said, the FCP XML is much, much more convenient than the standard EDL approach.

Hans
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Premiere xml = fcp xml... AFAIK
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Yes, Premiere Pro uses the FCP XML system and No because a system like Smoke does not recognize it as an FCP XML for various reasons.

So. Premier Pro's XML works with FCP but not with other systems. Does it work with Storm?

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
For conforming in Smoke the XML needs these additional data: start TC (usually 00:00:00:00) and missing Audio information which is: 4 channels, 16 bit, 48000 Hz. I cannot alter the XML in Smoke but maybe in a text editor. I let you know my results in this regard.
Click to expand...

Hi Hans, good info, we have logged this with Ref: 16362

Hans von Sonntag said:
EDIT: Storm is not yet production ready, at least for me. See the http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54239
Click to expand...

I'll take a look. :smile5:


thanks,
Dan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top