First Pic of Working Fixed Lens Red Scarlet

[Brian Petrie]

Good point, I dont think I have ever seen a working REDmote. Seems to me it would live on the camera.

I can't find the quote but when in the thread where the Epic-M was announced Jim stated that the REDmote was done , however, the REDmote PRO was still a ways off.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

You have to hold the camera from the Side Grip to appreciate it Hrvoje, it's very comfortable.

I don't have any doubts that it's comfortable. I'm not thinking "how comfortable it is - period", more like "how comfortable and optimized for the purpose it is compared to alternate possible solutions".

I was thinking more about the whole stills camera logic design approach. This setup is meant to be used for handheld and as opposed to camera designed for stills, this one is meant to be used not pressed against a face in a body clinch.

This way you are looking at weight distribution over two hands, held in mid air in a setup too short to lean against a body, with potential to affect shakiness - instead of weight distributed on just one hand with other free to control lens, which you'd have if the handle was a concave hand cradle and could rotate.

Compared to broadcast lens handle design this one is more open, shape doesn't keep your hand in, and no matter how comfortable it is you still have to squeeze it harder. This is where EX handle rotation rocks, although weight distribution and balance on it are no good. You guys have the great advantage of shorter camera body. Natural hand angle on eye level is closer to horizontal. I'm convinced that rotating handle is a way to go (some day), with all it allows.

I absolutely respect your effort and can understand reasons for this route, but still I hope you guys will re-think about allowing another handle design, as far fetched as it may seem...

 

[paulherrin]

have you actually held it? you'd think to make all these claims about how it handles, you'd have to.

weren't you going on about the same things like, 6 months ago? by now i would have thought you'd have made your own little side handle. the guys were really clear that third party side handles would totally be possible, i'd definitely prefer them to keep working on more important matters, and leave those alleged "comfortability" issues to others. so they're definitely "allowing for other handle designs." but really, i've heard nothing but positive remarks about how it feels in the hand, and there are no reports about people's hands falling off, so that's a good sign.

or maybe they should just have a lazy boy module that you can sit in while you shoot?

 

[Jannard]

I have been using the handle for months and wouldn't change a thing. Given that it holds a battery, smaller is not possible. Remember, I have held every camera ever made...

Jim

 

[paulherrin]

back already?

and i guess you'd tell us if you had a hook for a hand now, right?

 

[Jannard]

back already?

and i guess you'd tell us if you had a hook for a hand now, right?

Not back yet but hard to listen to this stuff and not respond.

Jim

 

[paulherrin]

Not back yet but hard to listen to this stuff and not respond.

Jim

haha, i was worried about that... we'll try to quiet down here so you can relax. we were doin okay the past couple days, just gettin restless i suppose...

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Paul, the tone of your post doesn't really deserve a response...sorry you don't understand what I am talking about, but it's nice to know you pay attention to my posts and thank you for the lazy boy module thought.

I have been using the handle for months and wouldn't change a thing. Given that it holds a battery, smaller is not possible. Remember, I have held every camera ever made...

Jim

Same volume, different shape and ratios, click rotate depending on the angle, cam sits in palm while not shooting...forearm muscles less strained, less pressure on tendons while holding due to natural angle...and something like this has not been made before...definitely not questioning your experience and product design reasons, creative style and vision...not doubting current solution is good...hope you understand suggestions and nitpicking...

 

[Jannard]

Paul, the tone of your post doesn't really deserve a response...sorry you don't understand what I am talking about, but it's nice to know you pay attention to my posts and thank you for the lazy boy module thought.



Same volume, different shape and ratios, click rotate depending on the angle, cam sits in palm while not shooting...forearm muscles less strained, less pressure on tendons while holding due to natural angle...and something like this has not been made before...definitely not questioning your experience and product design reasons, creative style and vision...not doubting current solution is good...hope you understand suggestions and nitpicking...

I get what you are talking about... there are a million ways to make things better. I have to make a call on how much complexity we can stand here. If the handle rotates forward, it will hit some lenses. That is unless we make the body longer and move the handle back (something we didn't want to do). Remember that we are trying to accommodate a lot of lens mount options. Having a battery inside the handle is mandatory. The size of that battery determines how long you can record on the battery. That battery size determines how small the handle can be. How big it is determines how close it can be to the body. We didn't take this design exercise lightly and think we have a great compromise of all aspects, including how well the package "handles"...

Jim

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I get what you are talking about... there are a million ways to make things better. I have to make a call on how much complexity we can stand here. If the handle rotates forward, it will hit some lenses. That is unless we make the body longer and move the handle back (something we didn't want to do). Remember that we are trying to accommodate a lot of lens mount options. Having a battery inside the handle is mandatory. The size of that battery determines how long you can record on the battery. That battery size determines how small the handle can be. How big it is determines how close it can be to the body. We didn't take this design exercise lightly and think we have a great compromise of all aspects, including how well the package "handles"...

Jim

I agree, nothing needs t change on the Handle, I absolutely love the way it fills and handle, it is well balanced and
perfectly comfortable to hold for extended periods of time, even with an RPP or 17-50 RPZ mounted on.

 

[Brian Petrie]

Personally, I have always loved the side handle for handheld work, especially if you are doing stills as I know that I prefer that type of positioning. The only modification I could see that would be neat if it is possible would be for the side handle to swivel 90 or 180 degrees. Therefore, when you are holding the camera at waist height you could swivel the handle so that instead of it being vertical, it could be swiveled down about 45 degrees to a more comfortable hand positioning. Anyways, that's just being nit picky and I love it how it is. Keep up the good work!

I wrote this out awhile ago just never clicked send till now, haha didn't realize Hrvoje had the same idea...I think.

 

[paulherrin]

my bad hrvoje, didn't mean anything by it, just being sarcastic. my apologies. it never hurts to have more options, or more lazy boys.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

please give me more info about scarlet lineup and specs.everyone waiting for that
im still looking at this

 

[Jim Retar]

!!! Lock down all features !!!

Don't start getting any ideas on how to improve anything ;-)

We are (nearly) all very happy with the side grip design. Jim, get back to your beach/mountain/bar and relax.

 

[Brian Petrie]

It will come in due time, does it really make that much of a different if we learn this information today or next week. Let Jim enjoy his vacation and not have to come on here to deal with people, he works and probably worries enough.We all have our opinions of how things should have been made or when things should be announced but let Red do it how they want. Anyways, when the time is right we will learn everything we need to know; that I am quite sure of.

 

[Sterling Wescott]

hard to listen to this stuff and not respond.

Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in!

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Thanks for understanding.

I get what you are talking about... there are a million ways to make things better. I have to make a call on how much complexity we can stand here.

The last thing I'd do is throw smart-ass suggestions with over-simplified perception of the production process complexity. If all this makes sense and production process allows it, maybe somewhere down the line there might be a second handle option. What could help in reducing fiddling with the handle production is allowing rubber add-ons on basic naked handle for different preferences and hand sizes. Rotating version would need different, more curved shape anyway, "squarish" shape wouldn't work well IMO. You may think of this like going into more detailed modularity - as the project evolves.

If the handle rotates forward, it will hit some lenses. That is unless we make the body longer and move the handle back (something we didn't want to do). Remember that we are trying to accommodate a lot of lens mount options.

It's great you didn't move the handle back, seems like a perfect location. I don't think it's a problem if some lenses will prevent rotation, so - no full rotation with those, still leaves a lot of options for optimizing ergonomics in a lot of shooting scenarios. Depends on what percentage of lens wouldn't allow it IMHO. If it's just a small percent - I'd still be for it. Looks like it would work with both fixed Scarlet and mini primes route, which will grab a huge market segment. For example, I'm pretty sure extreme sports shooters would prefer it. They need all the adaptability they can get.

Having a battery inside the handle is mandatory. The size of that battery determines how long you can record on the battery. That battery size determines how small the handle can be. How big it is determines how close it can be to the body.

I understand. If by any chance battery can get deeper inside the handle, bottom of the handle could be made thinner from the inside allowing at least more horizontal angle with problematic lenses when shooting eye level.

We didn't take this design exercise lightly and think we have a great compromise of all aspects, including how well the package "handles"...

Jim

Don't doubt it one bit.


Since whole DSMC concept lies on adaptability and ability to customize one's own optimal setup I think it would be good to have another handle option. Folks coming from stills world may prefer current option, but I'm convinced that a lot of folks coming from handheld smaller or larger broadcast type cameras world would prefer similar principle and handle design and ergonomics, with added advantage of advanced controls and reduced volume and weight which DSMC offers, in which case you'd get more adaptable and unique system...with added revenue on parts.

 

[Steven Hammer]

This thread is fantastic! Thanks for posting the picture and video. It's real! I'm dying to get one of my own. I was just about to put in an order for another camera (a GH2, I'm a novice), but I think I'm just going to continue practicing on the HD Camcorder that I have and wait for Scarlet before making another purchase.

 

[adam r]

This thread is fantastic! Thanks for posting the picture and video. It's real! I'm dying to get one of my own. I was just about to put in an order for another camera (a GH2, I'm a novice), but I think I'm just going to continue practicing on the HD Camcorder that I have and wait for Scarlet before making another purchase.

Very excited too! I nearly bought a Sony EX1R. I'm just worried about extra price increases.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Guys, don't worry about the handle! It's absolutely PERFECT. Has a great feel, ergonomics, etc .... I personally think Red hit it out of the park with that handle -- really the whole camera design overall.

Once you hold it, you won't want it changed. The R1 is amazing, but not a "pickup and shoot" camera -- on the other hand, the Epic and Scarlet feel like that. I think it's a lot because of the size and form factor with the handle.

Anthony