A Digital Loader is not a DIT

[M Most]

1) no one in the camera department can train you or step in and cover you if you were sick etc. There is no apprenticeship model for the DIT in the camera department.
2) the skills required are outside of the departments core skillset

Sorry, didn't reply to this before.....

1. In the US there is a training program, a pretty comprehensive and active one, run by Local 600 for exactly that purpose, at least in part.

2. Many individual skills within the camera department are not part of the core skill set of other members of the department. The skills of a loader or even a 2nd AC have no relationship to focus pulling or operating and don't teach those skills at all. Focus pulling as a skill has almost nothing to do with operating - I know a number of excellent focus pullers who can't operate worth a damn. And I know a number of terrific operators who can't pull focus to save their lives. And none of these jobs prepare you for the ultimate camera department job, Director of Photography, other than to inform you of some of the individual skills involved in pulling off a shot. In many ways, a gaffer is more prepared to assume the responsibilities of a DP than an operator is, despite their coming up through a different department. So I'm not sure I agree that different skills are a justification for a new or different department.

 

[Harry Clark]

Local 600 ACs can "load" and "un-load" digital magazines.

It only falls to DIT classification if the IMAGE IS MANIPULATED, LUTS/LOOKS created, etc.
Well said and very accurate, Mark.
Cheers,
Harry




>>>Words like "managed" and "wrangled" are pretty damn vague - and they lead the all the debate happening now.

My opinion:

DATA = FILM = CAMERA DEPARTMENT

LOAD, UNLOAD, COPY = AC or DIT

LUTS/LOOKS, COLOR/IMAGE PROCESSING (on set dailies, etc.) = DIT

I also think it's a SHAME that local 700 and local 600 are not working more closely together. This should all be about the crew members, not politics.<<<
__________________

 

[M Most]

I also think it's a SHAME that local 700 and local 600 are not working more closely together. This should all be about the crew members, not politics.<<<
__________________

Unfortunately, it never has been, and likely never will be.

 

[Harry Clark]

Oops, sorry Mike, that was a quote from Mark Pederson... somehow it posted in the body of my text.
But I share the sentiment... and I agree with your analysis that it's rarely about crew and mostly about politics.
Cheers,
Harry

 

[Laura Creecy]

Does anyone have any experience as a Local 700 member working on a union project as a DIT? I'm wondering how supported you are in this position.

 

[Thomas Frank]

Hi everybody, my first post here! Yippee!!!

I really find this a interesting thread, I do have a question. I usually get hired as a DIT mainly for independent film, music videos, documentary and sometimes for TV shows. But my main duties are getting the card from the AC copy and backup the data, adding metadata from the script supervisor (notes, scene % take, circle good takes... metadata stuff) check the footage for corruption or bad focus, transcode the footage in h.264 or ProRes if required, help out if something goes wrong with camera on the technical side.
I would love to get into the LUT business but I haven't had chance to get any experience nor I know someone that would teach me some inside knowledge
So rom what I have been reading this is less a DIT job right, what would the correct title be?

Thanks

 

[Eric Santiago]

Where Im based I have no idea what the DIT position entails.
I do have a question.
Can someone tell me what my position should be called (just for a specific project, things can change over time).
First off I am the camera provider as well as all the gear that makes it work.
I will be doing double duty by helping put all the parts together/apart/together during shoots and scene changes.
On top of that I will be taking care off:
Data Wrangling (media loading/unloading, backup/checksum I pressume?)
R3D visual check in RCXPro
During breaks I will be transcoding burn-ins using either RCXPro or Resolve
Prep all files including Audio Sync for Avid/Resolve
Total responsibility of all data for backup and dailies all the way up to edit and finishing (to 4K and HD).

I know it seems like a lot but I love this stuff
Now of course add the gear wrangling (my gear) during the shoot(s) on top of driving 2 hours back to city (daily) for complete safe backup of all media.

Can someone tell me if DIT is in here somewhere?

P.s. I might have to AC as well on some days but Id rather leave that out for another topic.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I would love to get into the LUT business but I haven't had chance to get any experience nor I know someone that would teach me some inside knowledge. So rom what I have been reading this is less a DIT job right, what would the correct title be?

Read the manuals on daVinci Resolve and also Colorfront Express Dailies, and that goes into great detail on what control you have over the image. Jeremy Selan's tech report on Color Management is also helpful for understanding color space, mathematical LUTs, and how workflows are set up.

Nobody has yet written a book on the art, craft, and science of being a D.I.T., but I think the truth is that the industry is changing so rapidly, if you took two years to write such a book it'd probably be (somewhat) obsolete by the time it came out. Still, it's a shame somebody doesn't do it, because that train is moving 100MPH right now. Very hard for new users to jump onto it, unless you have the luxury of being trained by an experienced DIT who's already doing the job.

 

[Ian Laurie]

Honestly, I have given up on defining the position and/or title. It varies from job to job, often drastically, can include some pretty massive distances in thought process or be simple file management and backup (still not a job for a entry level, as rescuing data for people who make that mistake makes evident). The only thing i find is don't call me a data wrangler, or media manager, or something like that, if the job you want me to do is significantly more involved than that. I find it insulting.

 

[Eric M Hurt]

Interesting, I think that a number of DITs wouldn't work as much if there was a digital loader available.

There was no one on set during the film days to tell you if your negative was exposed properly, and personally I have never let my DIT tell me when I'm exposing properly on digital either, that's my job as a cinematographer. All I want is someone to handle the data properly on set. So Digital Loader position sounds like a fine idea, although if the position is essentially taking the place of the film loader then the day rate will probably be less then the DIT unfortunately since the loader in the film days was not way up the chain.

 

[Ivan Kovax]

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16252&highlight=dit

One thing is important I think: A DIT should not focus on color too much (look-wise; we're shooting RAW) but on advising the dp on how to expose the image the best way possible.

You don't think DPs know how to expose?

 

[Eric M Hurt]

Exposure is THE job of the DP. I imagine that post comes from someone who has not had an on set LUT...
The color and look are the ONLY things I want the DIT to possibly look at (which is more for the Director and Producers actually). I'll handle the exposure as DP.http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[Brian Merlen]

of course red savvy DPs know how to use it, but if its someones first Red shoot (or any digital camera for that matter), some friendly advice given in a friendly manner without offputting the DP or anyone else on the set can very well be useful. People who are Reducated know the nuances of the camera very well, owner ops do as well, but I can literally teach a red hater how to shoot a Red correctly in a quick and dirty 5 minute tutorial... I would never want to tell a DP how to do his job, but offering advice to someone not as Red (or Phantom or whatever) savvy if it helps the person and is done discreetly without upsetting them surely wouldn't hurt...(unless of course you piss them off lol)...

I think the job of a dit/wrangler/tech whatever you call them isn't so cut and dry. Some people want check sums, some want LUTs, some want custom grades, some want you working in applications your not as savvy on, so many variables. All you can do is try and keep up with the demands of the DP. This feature I am on I re encode almost every mag on my own time while I live with the crew offset cuz at the end of the day I need the DP to be happy, whether I sleep 7 hours a night or not. I am not doing it to help the production, they can have a LUT or my first custom pass for all I care, I do it because I want the DP happy, at all costs...That is my primary job

 

[Eric M Hurt]

Now I'll agree that the duty of a DIT is not cut and dry, but there's no way a few days of Reducation will be trumping years of DP work and proper testing before starting a feature when it comes to exposure. Will a DITs suggestions be listened to? Surely! But the moment a DP has to rely on a DIT to tell them what's "proper" exposure is the moment that DP should hang up their light meter. You have to remember that exposure is relative, and the creative aspect in many times is influencing what passes for "proper" exposure. A DIT is more a technical position then a creative one. They are there to manage the data, apply grades that the DP asked for and apply the LUT. I'm not meaning to imply that a DIT is not important, or that Reducation isn't good, but there are other (very large) factors that are not being considered when you speak of "proper" exposure, things that cannot be taught in a 5 minute tutorial.

 

[Dustin Cross]

I think that a number of DITs wouldn't work as much if there was a digital loader available.

You do realize there is a Digital Loader position and the rate is much lower than that of the DIT. DITs still get lots of work.

DITs often have remote iris control to set exposure. We work with the DP to set iris based on what the DP wants to achieve. It is very common for DITs to set exposure.



Dusty

 

[Ben Scott]

Outside gallery-based events/sports shooting I'm intrigued to know what sort of gigs someone other than the DP or operator is going to be adjusting the iris of the camera on.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Now I'll agree that the duty of a DIT is not cut and dry, but there's no way a few days of Reducation will be trumping years of DP work and proper testing before starting a feature when it comes to exposure. Will a DITs suggestions be listened to? Surely! But the moment a DP has to rely on a DIT to tell them what's "proper" exposure is the moment that DP should hang up their light meter. You have to remember that exposure is relative, and the creative aspect in many times is influencing what passes for "proper" exposure. A DIT is more a technical position then a creative one. They are there to manage the data, apply grades that the DP asked for and apply the LUT. I'm not meaning to imply that a DIT is not important, or that Reducation isn't good, but there are other (very large) factors that are not being considered when you speak of "proper" exposure, things that cannot be taught in a 5 minute tutorial.

To clarify I taught him the Red menu, he actively hated Red and was a Sony or Arri shooter...I think Arri only... But after a quick and dirty menu tutorial he was able to apply his vastly superior skill set to a new tool set... and I've done a few hundred days of Red shoots, the classes alone are BS... Practice makes perfect...but put me on an Arri set and as a non owner op (even with an easy menu) I am basically a fish out of water...The ACs on this job run circles around me...I don't know what the bracket for the eye cup extender looks like, I am clueless when they walkie me basically... Its an experience thing, with time I am sure I'd be more comfortable on the system, but not owning one or using one regularly sure doesn't help me. Even with Red there is plenty of accessories I don't own and therefore have limited knowledge of. I would never want to step on anyones toes, but when I can offer life experience and I know what I am talking about I am always happy to lend a hand discreetly.

For instance I heard a story about a DP (from the tape world) wanted to rent 100 phantom flex mags so he wouldn't have to wipe any for his shoot. He didn't understand that the mags don't make a good master, fortunately someone was able to educate him in the affordability of on set data management to raids instead of holding on to tens of thousands of dollars of cine mags...

 

[Eric M Hurt]

You do realize there is a Digital Loader position and the rate is much lower than that of the DIT. DITs still get lots of work.

DITs often have remote iris control to set exposure. We work with the DP to set iris based on what the DP wants to achieve. It is very common for DITs to set exposure.



Dusty

Yep, they set exposure based on what the DP wants, which is based on the DPs years of experience and the tests they have performed.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Exposure is THE job of the DP. I imagine that post comes from someone who has not had an on set LUT... The color and look are the ONLY things I want the DIT to possibly look at (which is more for the Director and Producers actually). I'll handle the exposure as DP.

I agree, although... there are always issues where the exposure level changes dynamically -- vast camera movements throughout a large set to outdoors, sun going away, etc. -- which I think can be expertly compensated in post. I usually try to dissuade DPs from riding exposure during problem situations like this, because generally the lens aperture change is more obvious than a change in post. If it's a massive change (say, 3-4 stops), then I could see the need for it.

For instance I heard a story about a DP (from the tape world) wanted to rent 100 phantom flex mags so he wouldn't have to wipe any for his shoot. He didn't understand that the mags don't make a good master, fortunately someone was able to educate him in the affordability of on set data management to raids instead of holding on to tens of thousands of dollars of cine mags...

Doh! I know of a major A-list director who shot a digital feature not too long ago, and he was terrified of losing his "digital negative" to the point that he forbade the camera rental house from reformatting the camera drives for weeks and weeks until his shoot was finished. This caused them many problems, since they wound up having to buy far more additional drives than they ever expected they would need.

I think eventually, people get rid of their old habits and embrace the new, and they develop new understandings of good workflow practice. The key is to have good people check all the data coming in so you know everything's good, especially before a set (or actors) are wrapped the next day.

 

[Shane Kelly]

Outside gallery-based events/sports shooting I'm intrigued to know what sort of gigs someone other than the DP or operator is going to be adjusting the iris of the camera on.

It's getting pretty common in episodic television with multiple cameras.