I'm Confused!

[Hammam Abdullah]

Hello,

I've been reading a lot about the Red One camera, and I watched a lot of videos, here's what I want to talk about.. Between each video I see big differences in the quality, what I mean is in some videos the quality looks like DSLR camera quality the question is why? RED ONE used in many big films and I'm still Confused about the differences that I see .. Is it because the lenses, which may vary from one camera to another? I mean if want a (film look), how do I get it ?

 

[Gunleik Groven]

A camera makes not a movie, people do.

Some are good at what they're doing.
Others... Not so much...

And quite a few learn as they go and improve their skillsets...

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I agree with Guneleik, the BEST way to get a film look, is to hire an experienced DP
OR if you want to shoot it yourself, then hire a RED experienced A/C and DIT and
then TEST TEST TEST

 

[Elsie N]

Hello,

I've been reading a lot about the Red One camera, and I watched a lot of videos, here's what I want to talk about.. Between each video I see big differences in the quality, what I mean is in some videos the quality looks like DSLR camera quality the question is why? RED ONE used in many big films and I'm still Confused about the differences that I see .. Is it because the lenses, which may vary from one camera to another? I mean if want a (film look), how do I get it ?

Hammam, this is due mostly to being recorded in RAW. It is not like an ordinary video camera that you shoot and show. With RAW, you shoot and you then make the footage the way you want it to look and then you show. With RED's color science soon being able to be loaded into the camera, the ability to pre-program how you want the RAW footage to look should allow a proper "shoot-and-show". And even then, if you don't like it you can still adjust later.

 

[Clint Lealos]

Gunleik and Tim are right.

There are lots of reasons why some things look better than others. Cameras and camera settings are one thing, but directing, acting, budget, writing, lighting, lenses, set design, wardrobe, hair/makeup, etc. are equally important in making something look good. However, the most important difference is always the experience, talent, and passion of the crew. Sorry if this doesn't really answer your question, but its a hard one to answer.

 

[Andrew M.]

Hello,

I've been reading a lot about the Red One camera, and I watched a lot of videos, here's what I want to talk about.. Between each video I see big differences in the quality, what I mean is in some videos the quality looks like DSLR camera quality the question is why? RED ONE used in many big films and I'm still Confused about the differences that I see .. Is it because the lenses, which may vary from one camera to another? I mean if want a (film look), how do I get it ?

Hammam, what screen are you using to watch these movies?

 

[Steve Das]

...I mean if want a (film look), how do I get it ?

Most of the "film look" that you see in a commercial movie..comes not
so much from the film or the lens. It comes from the choices a Production Designer
and DP make. Colors..fabrics..& locations the production designer chooses...
as well as the way the DP lights and blocks a scene all add
up to the final look of the film.

If you shoot 35mm film at 30 fps in a small apartment with white walls
and just flat available light...well it will look incredibly "video like".

 

[Pierre Alt]

"shoot 35mm film at 30 fps" ?!?
funny...

 

[Hammam Abdullah]

A camera makes not a movie, people do.

Some are good at what they're doing.
Others... Not so much...

And quite a few learn as they go and improve their skillsets...

What you said is true.
But at the same time you may wondering whether the camera will give you the result that you want or not, and I truly trust RED ONE.

I agree with Guneleik, the BEST way to get a film look, is to hire an experienced DP
OR if you want to shoot it yourself, then hire a RED experienced A/C and DIT and
then TEST TEST TEST

I can't hire with a low budget!

Hammam, this is due mostly to being recorded in RAW. It is not like an ordinary video camera that you shoot and show. With RAW, you shoot and you then make the footage the way you want it to look and then you show. With RED's color science soon being able to be loaded into the camera, the ability to pre-program how you want the RAW footage to look should allow a proper "shoot-and-show". And even then, if you don't like it you can still adjust later.

watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxQiI8c1Bs

This is the kind of quality that I want to get.
I don't know if color correction playing big part in all of this.

There are lots of reasons why some things look better than others. Cameras and camera settings are one thing, but directing, acting, budget, writing, lighting, lenses, set design, wardrobe, hair/makeup, etc. are equally important in making something look good. However, the most important difference is always the experience, talent, and passion of the crew. Sorry if this doesn't really answer your question, but its a hard one to answer.

I'm talking mainly about the camera.. but thanx.

Hammam, what screen are you using to watch these movies?

it's not about the screen that I use, it's about the cinematic look that I'll get from the RED ONE.

 

[Clint Lealos]

Okay Hammam, if its the basics you are looking for this is what I can think of to start you off.

Shoot 24 fps with 180 degree shutter. Use mainly ISO 800 (can go as high as ISO 2000) if shooting with an MX camera, or always ISO 320 if using the original Mysterium sensor. Stay within the "goal posts" on your histogram (Don't over expose and don't under expose). Always shoot at least 4K unless you need to shoot more fps for slow motion. PL mount lenses like RPPs, Zeiss Ultra Primes, or Angenieux's Optimo Zooms are a good idea. Make sure the camera has the most current build (not beta) and RedCine X is updated to the most current RedCine X. Use RedColor as your color space on camera. Develop in RedCine X using RedLogFilm for color grading. Good Luck!

 

[jimhare]

Hi Hammam,

I understand what you are saying. I have a Red and I have shot both incredibly cinematic footage and also footage that looks like video. Same camera, same set up, but the others are right, to get a truly cinematic result you need a combination of great lighting, a beautiful environment, knowledge and experience with the camera and strong post production skills.

As Steve said, even if you shot on 35mm you aren't guaranteed the "cinematic look."

What I can tell you is that it's entirely possible to get the look on your own, but expect to work for it and learn a lot.

The Red is not a magic bullet, it's just a fantastic tool.

 

[ericyoung]

...watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxQiI8c1Bs

This is the kind of quality that I want to get.
I don't know if color correction playing big part in all of this.
...
it's not about the screen that I use, it's about the cinematic look that I'll get from the RED ONE.

Well, there are a few things in that shot which make it look "cinematic", and most aren't to do with the camera. Cinematic is about making shots interesting with any or all techniques available.

1) camera location and its position in the location - allows depth in the shot. There's the latticed window in the door in the far distance, the light on the stairs with nice brass rail and reflected light in the floor and propped open latticed door in the middle distance, Dicaprio's silhouette in the foreground. If they'd chosen a different location with more boring objects in the distance or a more boring camera position you might have a less interesting shot.

2) camera framing/composition - from the general rule of thirds, although this is a symmetrical composition on Dicaprio, there's the window around the right third, and the stairs around the left third.

3) lighting (yes it's mostly what's available there, but they've made good use of it) - the bright window is the first thing the eye is drawn to, followed by the dimmer stairs and then the dark silhouette. Your eyes make a journey in the shot, ending with the even brighter lighting of the match and Dicaprio's movie star presence and acting provides a great finale. And smoke also allows a nice quality to the stair lighting and around Leonardo.

4) camera movement - the slow dolly in (not a zoom) is a convention used much more in single camera film shots than in TV, where a zoom is more often used to get in closer to a subject avoiding being seen by other cameras in a typical multicamera studio shot. The change in perspective gives 3D depth cues that a image crop change you get with a zoom does not.

5) Super 35 depth of field - using a camera with a Super 35mm sensor allows shallower depth of field which means focus can be placed where the filmmaker wants it to be in the shot.

Camera specific qualities:
6) RED One M-X is so clean in the shadows/blacks that there is no noise to cause nasty macroblocking in the YouTube compression

7) RED One's ultra high resolution (like film) does not need video like edge sharpening to look sharp.

8) Colour correction can enhance or degrade a mood depending on the aesthetic sensibility of the filmmaker. In this case, there was probably very little colour correction, other than making the "good" decision to allow the colour to stay nice and warm.

So only 2 of my points are RED specific.

 

[Jannard]

David Fincher lit the Leo scene very carefully. He was careful with the two lights in the background, one with a warm gel and the other with a cool gel. He tuned the one that lit the stairs very carefully to get them (stairs) to "show up". Leo was in the dark. We could barely see him until the match was lit. What you are seeing in the clip is brighter than we were seeing. The punchline is that a film look can mean just a flat image with lots of elbow room or it can mean a lot more depending on how well you address all the lighting and details in a scene. That is why it takes some time to get to professional status.

The Social Network is a great example of RED footage looking filmic. That didn't just happen automatically. The new color science and REDlogFilm makes it a lot easier to mine out the film-like characteristics of RED footage, but it isn't necessary if you know what you are doing. "Knowing", "District 9", "Fair Game", "Rabbit Hole", and a ton of other movies were shot on the original M sensor without the availability of the new color science. "The Lovely Bones" intercut film with RED and no one can tell which scenes are which for all the scenes.

Learning the craft means learning a lot of things. But one thing for sure... RED can easily produce results that are "filmic". Easier now than ever before.

Jim

 

[ericyoung]

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere on this forum that shot was mostly lit by available light except one? Were they gelling existing lights from that location, or film lights brought in?

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Hello,
I mean if want a (film look), how do I get it ?

you become a good cinematographer...

cameras just capture the image the DP creates...

your footage is only as good as the shot, lighting, set design, costumes, makeup, so on...

 

[Jannard]

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere on this forum that shot was mostly lit by available light except one? Were they gelling existing lights from that location, or film lights brought in?

That was the available light... Trust me it wasn't much as is confirmed when Leo blows out the candle. Lights were already on set and actual shooting time was about 15 minutes.

Jim

 

[ericyoung]

:biggrin:

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

That was the available light... Trust me it wasn't much as is confirmed when Leo blows out the candle. Lights were already on set and actual shooting time was about 15 minutes.

Jim

If Leo could be shot with R1-MX using Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/0,95 ten you'll be able to get the same Leo's shot as it was shot in "Shutter Island" that shot on 65mm.

Please believe me because I already tested R1-M and MX with diverse Noctilux lenses.

Also to mention that I pretty pissed of that Epic can't get Leica-M flange distance measure that means no Noctilux or

simply we will not be able to get one or two stops more light with new RED cameras (Epic range) from fastest lenses available

just some of "mad" engineers screwed the sensor flange distance "accessibility/openness" to all the flange lenses available (still or cine).

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

Maybe someone could enlighten me (cause I've forgot): This was shot with Master Primes, right?

 

[Jannard]

Maybe someone could enlighten me (cause I've forgot): This was shot with Master Primes, right?

Yes.

Jim