More SSD questions $$$$$

[David Battistella]

So SSD

I agree that it's a good move.

But I am looking for clarity.

-only RED 1.8 SSD media will work?
-I can only buy this specialized SSD media from RED?
-I need to buy the base station and the SSD reader from RED in order to transfer this media to other backup devices?

Just wanting to iron out what extra pennies will be a "mandatory" part of the EPIC package.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

Jim has said once things have settled down they will look at allowing 3rd party SSD drives. The camera will analyze the drive and tell you resolution/framerate/compression it can do. Here is Jim's response to the question:

Yes... just like we have with CF cards. The camera will analyze how fast the media is and let you know what you can get away with.

Jim

You can offload the media via the brain with ethernet I believe. We haven't heard much about this lately though.

 

[Tom.Wong]

from all the info that's been passed around and past precedents. here's my 2 cents if you'll have it.

1. only red SSD will work because they have specialized connectors they came up with. reasoning was that standard sata plug were flakey and would get ruined over long term use of inserting and ejecting mags. also they have a precedent of flashing their own firmware on their media so you can't use anybody else's or when you try it's limited in bandwidth. not to mention these red mags are the only approved "spec" wise to be used on red and epic systems because of their sustained read and write ability.

2. all the stuff in one, pretty much means u can only get it from red. as far as i know for now, only their connector exists, only the brand they chose for their ssd is fast enough.

3. cause of the special connector, only their red station can offload it. otherwise i would suggest a off the shelf 1.8 inch hard drive dock that has esata for offloading.

hope that helps.

 

[David Battistella]

Just trying to figure out what is needed.

The price of this will all go down as we move forward.

I hope that is the case.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

-I need to buy the base station and...

No, you do not need the base. The base only provides power to multiple modules and saves on having to power each module separately. It is nice to have, but not necessary...

 

[Tom.Wong]

or the price of progress. however you want describe it as. it all makes sense, just sucks for the wallet. you want the higher redcodes and stable rock solid media, SSD is the way to go. if they say the connectors are flaky than you have to take their word on it. specialized connectors need specialized readers.

if you put it in comparison, at least it's not a 150k tape deck,that weights 40+ lbs

 

[Tom.Wong]

No, you do not need the base. The base only provides power to multiple modules and saves on having to power each module separately. It is nice to have, but not necessary...

does esata provide power over the cable? I don't think i've ever seen anything that draws power via esata. I'm pretty sure you can only derive power from the fw800 but if you want the esata usage you gotta use the power station. Someone correct me if i'm wrong here...

 

[Pawel Achtel]

does esata provide power over the cable? I don't think i've ever seen anything that draws power via esata. I'm pretty sure you can only derive power from the fw800 but if you want the esata usage you gotta use the power station. Someone correct me if i'm wrong here...

Each module has a separate power socket. The base station means that you can have one cable for all, rather than whole bunch of them for each module.

 

[Michael Olsen]

Each module has a separate power socket. The base station means that you can have one cable for all, rather than whole bunch of them for each module.

Yep. Base station will save you two wall sockets.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

we need an EPIC STICKY on accessory costs estimates

SSD Modules $2500 on EPIC
SSD Media
Pro I/O Module
LCD options
Bomb EVF $3200
Gunner


prices all over the place on here. Has anyone kept track and can list all the EPIC options and prices or price estimates?

 

[Antoine Fabi]

Yes, that's a very important point Tim!

Thanks

Antoine

 

[David Battistella]

Second that Tim.

Estimates would be good, even if they are close and not exact.

I need to refresh this and stage 2 together. I forget what we get and all of that.

 

[David Battistella]

prices all over the place on here. Has anyone kept track and can list all the EPIC options and prices or price estimates?

I think it is what it is. We all know that everything is subject to change so I will just go with the fact that I wil have 30 days to figure it out.

That 30 DAYS is probably not something that is NOT subject to change, but it would be nice to have 60 DAYS if there are price increases, option increases and other things to consider.

David

 

[Elsie N]

from all the info that's been passed around and past precedents. here's my 2 cents if you'll have it.

1. only red SSD will work because they have specialized connectors they came up with. reasoning was that standard sata plug were flakey and would get ruined over long term use of inserting and ejecting mags. also they have a precedent of flashing their own firmware on their media so you can't use anybody else's or when you try it's limited in bandwidth. not to mention these red mags are the only approved "spec" wise to be used on red and epic systems because of their sustained read and write ability.

2. all the stuff in one, pretty much means u can only get it from red. as far as i know for now, only their connector exists, only the brand they chose for their ssd is fast enough.

3. cause of the special connector, only their red station can offload it. otherwise i would suggest a off the shelf 1.8 inch hard drive dock that has esata for offloading.

hope that helps.

I also wonder if wiping the data after download (reformatting) isn't part of the equation? Different brands of SSD may have different methods and some may even cause a slowdown of performance after the initial use. I think we will be paying for RED cameras-specific cards that just aren't standardized in off-the-shelf brands. I'm getting used to the fact that RED products require a different (better) way of operating.

 

[David Battistella]

I'm getting used to the fact that RED products require a different (better) way of operating.

Also seemingly the only way as there is currently NO third party storage solution for any RED product.

I know that there are specific reasons for this and I believe they are:

-small run with specialized chip that is costly to produce
-bleeding edge always costs more
-RED has to have some higher margin itmes in their product line up (they are a business and we all get that)

Maybe it would be good to have RED approve media that can only go to a certain speed but costs a bit less. Like with an SSD that only records up to RC 42 but costs half as much.

I only say this because it would be nice to get into a media solution that is afforable to keep (like an XDCAM DISK) as an archive instead of having to migrate media.

for some productions that might be a viable option.

David

 

[Martin Weiss]

Remembering the Arri-Sr2 days, they had two types of magazines, standard and high-speed.

Maybe it could be an idea (and I have no technical insight whatsoever) to offer the following three SSD Options:

SSD-MAXX - Top of the line, RED approved, withstands any datarate that the Camera can produce. 120fps 5k. Great for big budgets, rental houses, and each owner/operator could buy one in 64gig flavour to be able to shoot high fps.

SSD-STANDARD - High quality, RED approved SSD media, up to say 30fps in 5k. Great for lower-budget films, and likely to be enough in 90% of all shooting situations for normal owner/operators. Makes media more affordable in those 90% situations where neither high-speed nor lowest compression is necessary.

SSD-DIY - Enclosure without a RED logo and a different color. When inserted, a big warning is displayed on all screens that media is not RED approved. In the enclosure one can insert off-the-shelf SSD media. Use at own risk. Severely limited data rates. Great for work in remote locations when extra media is needed on short notice, or to bridge possible future short supplies of RED media. (To draw another analogy, it is like in the 2000s, when shooting DVcam - one could always fall back to buy a miniDV tape at the local Radio Shack. Better to have substandard media, than no media at all. Let the users chose, but make it visually very clear that media is not RED approved.)

 

[ericyoung]

Great idea Martin - especially the second option!

 

[David Battistella]

SSD-STANDARD - High quality, RED approved SSD media, up to say 30fps in 5k. Great for lower-budget films, and likely to be enough in 90% of all shooting situations for normal owner/operators. Makes media more affordable in those 90% situations where neither high-speed nor lowest compression is necessary.

That's kinda what I was thinking.

David

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Jarred confirmed that the side SSD module fell by $1000 down to $1500

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=682627&postcount=116

 

[David Battistella]

OK.

That's good to know Shawn, but it still means buying a module, a reader, and media that was not there in the pipeline when we laid a deposit for stage 2 so I am just recalculating based on all of the new information.

Basically, it's about 2.5K more to get involved with SSD and it is not a good idea to stay with CF as it is (for all intents and purposes) EOL.

Thanks Shawn.

David



David