all EPICS before scarlet...

[Terry VerHaar]

...

I was thinking it is pretty close to the same body, but just looked at the RED.com and it is showing EXACTLY the same body , which makes sense since the difference in the "engines" inside probably isn't a lot in terms of physical size.
...

Michael, others have already pointed out some of the things in your post that don't seem to stack up with what we thought we knew (regarding shipping order, etc.) but I am still not clear on this one: The only picture of a Scarlet I see at RED.com is the 2/3" fixed on the Products page. And it clearly is not the same body as the Epic shown next to it. (The Scarlet has 6 vents on top, the Epic 7.) Is there a another picture somewhere, of the Scarlet S35? Of course, they both might be renders anyway. Not sure if that changes your new theory about shipping order but, personally, I still believe Jim will ship the 2/3" fixed as the first Scarlet.

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

I rather prefer having the Scarlet s35 out then , then the 2/3" if it comes available.

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

mostly because all optics would have same mount....

 

[Michael Hastings]

Michael, others have already pointed out some of the things in your post that don't seem to stack up with what we thought we knew (regarding shipping order, etc.) but I am still not clear on this one: The only picture of a Scarlet I see at RED.com is the 2/3" fixed on the Products page. And it clearly is not the same body as the Epic shown next to it. (The Scarlet has 6 vents on top, the Epic 7.) Is there a another picture somewhere, of the Scarlet S35? Of course, they both might be renders anyway. Not sure if that changes your new theory about shipping order but, personally, I still believe Jim will ship the 2/3" fixed as the first Scarlet.

My bad, apparently you had your glasses on and I didn't I just looked at the front and the top holes on the front and thought it was the same with just a different mount. So yes they are different, slightly narrower too.

But no, it doesn't really change my theory because I'm just saying given both what is easier to do and what seems to me to make more sense financially and competitively, that it makes sense for RED to switch to making S35 scarlet and put off 2/3 until whenever it comes together comfortably.

I think you also have to factor that the expectations for a 2/3" Scarlet, particularly the fixed, may be much different from what RED has done before, much more camcorderish like an HVX or Z1 . i.e. servo zoom, autoiris, autofocus, audio level knobs, etc.

With an S35, as I said before it will be more of a RED1/cine style feel and if Canon/Nikon iris and focus work at all at the beginning it will seem almost like a bonus. Rather than with a fixed scarlet if that stuff doesn't work as well as or better than what people are used to, it may get crucified in reviews/and or general public opinion. RED hasn't even brought out their second camera yet so I'm not sure if they are there yet or even why they need to be there yet when a $10K S35 scarlet and $19-$28K Epic geared mostly toward cinema style seems to straddle the market perfectly.

It seems to me that you go where you have relative advantages and strengths, and I just don't see that RED has that on the low end where it is obvious that Canon, Panasonic, and Sony can jump in with a 3 or 4K 2/3 or 4/3 camera pretty much any time they want to or need to. Not that RED can't bring something to the table, but it isn't their strength and they might not quite be at the point where they can bring it at its best.

If you look at what Sony just did, it's somewhat impressive when you add in Sony reputation, dealers, support etc. But it's price/performance spot is right in RED's wheelhouse so it doesn't really affect that Epic is dramatically higher IQ at not a lot more (relative to pro cam prices) and a $10K scarlet would still have technical advantages and a lower price. (for the non americans, when I say wheelhouse In baseball jargon: The sweet spot of a baseball player's strike zone where the most power and strength can be utilized. It is also like a boxer where if you are at a certain distance the other boxer is in an area where you can easily hit with your greatest power and score a knockout)

But if RED comes out with the current type of 2/3" $5Kto$7K scarlet, they are playing in the CanoPanaSony (and a bunch of others) wheelhouse so they are setup to have someone come in with similar specs, slick packaging and possibly drastically lower pricing. Again I just don't see the point for making that a priority - particularly for a company that has reset its priorities to be a "Professional" camera company.

 

[rod bradley]

Well, the usual amusing speculations and the usual optimistic ignoring of Jim's perennial caveat -- SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

Perhaps the S35 Scarlet is going to come soon. And Jim figures those who have committed to Epic have already stepped up, some because the thought the S35 Scarlet was down the road. I would be surprised if the S35 appears before the fixed Scarlet -- especially the price for the brain originally announced.

Ahh, yes -- as I tumble into the speculation whirlpool myself...

And what was it Jim admitted about Red and delivery dates....?

 

[scott william]

i've never recieved any email from red about what my options for upgrade are for stage 3. I know i qualify due to the shipping dates of my R1 but am i mistaken as to not having to commit to anything as yet except for stage 2?

 

[Joseph Hutson]

I believe the last word as far as Scarlet's delivery in association with the EPIC was at NAB 2010.

The words I remember were "Tattoo in June/July...Stage 2 in July/August, with Stage 3 and Scarlet shortly thereafter."

Of course we know that whole lineup has been a bit delayed, but maybe that schedule could be a look at their schedule's framework?

SPECULATION ONLY:

Tattoo Completion (or it's equivalent) in December/January
Stage 2 in January/February
Stage 3 March
Scarlet at NAB due to a bit of hangups with mass production since Foxconn didn't work out

Of course, that's assuming "no major drama" and a number of other things... :biggrinjester:

 

[julian-nüesch]

I think Epic should first be available to the mass and especially to all the professionals that want to buy directly from the store when it's listed over there as available like the R1 is now, before Scarlet starts shipping.
I think it's more appropriate to have the superb camera system available for everybody that wants to pay the price and make some smaller system available some months behind that. Some system like you have with the bigger cars , first they throw in the luxury models with heavy engines , and later on , you'll be able to buy it with a lighter engine and less options;....

This might be a little hard to some off you , but I think is the most logical way to give people who do take a risk in their lives and are really serious in investing in such system , some area to breath and relax and not having to care to much about another thousands off cheaper camera's and cheaper sollutions eating their market.

I'd like to buy some Scarlets asap aswell, but let's be honest, The Epic will be and should be most important for RED right now. Afterwards Jim can do what he wants (maby now as well off course) , but it would be nicer to all loyal customers I think.

i second that, and this was always reds philosophy, so i m curious how everything is gonna end up

 

[David Rasberry]

What we don't know is how the demand for Epic will affect availability of sensors for Scarlet S35. I think the sensors will all go to Epic until supply exceeds demand.
2/3" is a separate program and not constrained by demand for Epic.
I think Red will release all of these models as fast as they can get them into production.

 

[Michael Hastings]

What we don't know is how the demand for Epic will affect availability of sensors for Scarlet S35. I think the sensors will all go to Epic until supply exceeds demand.
2/3" is a separate program and not constrained by demand for Epic.
I think Red will release all of these models as fast as they can get them into production.

The S35 Mysterium was done many months ago. I don't think it's like the sensors are handmade and you get shipped a few every a day. Red's chip is a custom design, but I think the actual CMOS manufacturing is basically the same as others. AFAIK the fabs can make quite large numbers. So if the minimum order is 500 there is a certain lead time and then you get 500 in a shipment. If you run out sooner than you think, there may be a delay due to the lead time, but I don't think if you want to order 5000 or 10,000 the actual manufacturing time is going to take months longer - you just have to write a bigger check.

 

[David Rasberry]

The S35 Mysterium was done many months ago. I don't think it's like the sensors are handmade and you get shipped a few every a day. Red's chip is a custom design, but I think the actual CMOS manufacturing is basically the same as others. AFAIK the fabs can make quite large numbers. So if the minimum order is 500 there is a certain lead time and then you get 500 in a shipment. If you run out sooner than you think, there may be a delay due to the lead time, but I don't think if you want to order 5000 or 10,000 the actual manufacturing time is going to take months longer - you just have to write a bigger check.

Most manufacturers stage parts orders for just in time delivery to match their orders and assembly line capabilities. Scarlet should not be constrained by quantity availability in the long run, but may be by the ramp up of Epic production in the short run.