New here, NEED RED HELP!

[Aaron Champion]

Hi, I am new to the forum. I'm looking into buying two red one cameras and a mac pro system. I am a DP and from where I am right now it looks like this purchase would help me get work if I actually owned the gear. (i live in Burbank, CA) Its going to be a costly small business loan though So my question is this.

Is it worth it right now for me to buy two red one cameras, or is the epic going to be on the market (in the next month or so) and should I wait for the epic. Is it worth it for me in my position to buy the two red ones? I could really use any advice. ANY! haha, best set up, work flow... so on. Thanks guys for the help!


PS my reel is on my site www.zogreo.com let me know what you think! thanks for the love.

 

[Aaron Champion]

I know I am new, im really sorry, please anyone have any answers? I have been searching the forums but...no luck.

 

[Greg M]

Why do you think owning your own gear will help you get work as a DP?

 

[George Butterfield]

Why do you think owning your own gear will help you get work as a DP?

If you own the gear you can rent yourself and your gear out as a solution. You can become more efficient with the RED ONE etc. if you can practice with it 24/7. Why not just purchase one camera and rent any required backup? Then buy an EPIC when you want. A RED MX should last you at least two years before you might decide you wanted an EPIC.

 

[Aaron Champion]

Why do you think owning your own gear will help you get work as a DP?

I can rent my self out with the gear, plus I know there are so many people out there trying to be "DP's" having a red is like having a really nice business card. At the least they know you know how to operate a camera like that, let alone know what it takes to light a scene and chose lenses and set the camera at. I'd like to get established enough that people wont rent me for my gear but for my self, though I need to get started first. (I have been DPing for 5 years but not in LA) so not to many people know me...

 

[Greg M]

I hire DP's regularly and rarely do I hire someone because they have a camera.

IMO the main reasons to own a camera are; 1- if you shoot your own projects or 2- if you want to get into the rental business. The later is far more involved than most think and requires a substantial investment in support gear, back-up gear and bodies, lenses, etc, etc. If you shoot your own projects, owning makes sense. Id suggest a business plan first.

Regarding MX vs Epic, that really depends on your business plan. Do you have clients? Who are they? What do they expect? MX is available now, Epic availability is unknown. If you have clients that will hire you today w/ a camera get the MX...if you are assuming owning a camera will bring in clients that dont exist today, you might be better off taking the money to Vegas and putting it on black.

 

[Aaron Champion]

I hire DP's regularly and rarely do I hire someone because they have a camera.

IMO the main reasons to own a camera are; 1- if you shoot your own projects or 2- if you want to get into the rental business. The later is far more involved than most think and requires a substantial investment in support gear, back-up gear and bodies, lenses, etc, etc. If you shoot your own projects, owning makes sense. Id suggest a business plan first.

Regarding MX vs Epic, that really depends on your business plan. Do you have clients? Who are they? What do they expect? MX is available now, Epic availability is unknown. If you have clients that will hire you today w/ a camera get the MX...if you are assuming owning a camera will bring in clients that dont exist today, you might be better off taking the money to Vegas and putting it on black.

Thanks for the advice. ^_^

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm not in LA, so can't comment on the market there. The LA market does seem to be flooded with a lot of low-cost owner/operator types with very basic RED kits. So keep that in mind.

As for myself, I think I've only been hired 2 or 3 times in 3 years for simply having the camera. And none of those jobs turned out that well because those hiring me brought in others to serve as DP, AC, etc.. Typically people who had zero RED experience.

I don't do the typical owner-op business model. I offer out myself at my standard rate. People can hire me for me. I'll bring my camera along for the ride as an included bonus. If they're just hiring a camera, then they can get that elsewhere. I am no longer trying to rent the camera/equipment at all. Not worth the headache. All that and I think I probably have the most extensive RED One package in a 1000 mile radius too. I'm probably about done hiring myself out too -- I have way too many projects of my own I'm trying to develop. So I guess I'm not a good case study for this. But just saying that owning the gear is not what gets you the job. And RED Ones are cheap and plentiful. If people are willing to hire you, it should be easy for you to bring a RED to the party even if you don't own one.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Aaron,

I do believe that if you are already good at what you do, having your own gear does not help little.. it helps a LOT, especially in this economy were every one is looking to save , and you can give a better Package deal to any Job if you own the gear yourself, instead too have to deal with rental, also this will allow for less pressure of time and Budget if takes an extra day or two, good for you good for your clients.

But I would not invest in gear if I did not had a plan to put it to work, it really is never a good idea to have lots of money invested in gear that just seats there, so if you buy make sure you can put it to use.

Also let people know you do have the gear, put the word out and put the gear to work, even when not working, put the gear to work for Spec and Reel building , just shoot any time al the time.

If you need anything at all just shoot me an email..

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Aaron,

Some great advice here. LA is a massively competitive market,
probably the more than anyplace in the world.

That said, I remember posting ads on Craigslist for someone to
shoot one of our doctors at some Oscars pre-parties. I got so
many responses but what really stood out to me was how each
person highlighted the equipment he owned and would be using.

So that gives me the impression that many people do hire with
at least some consideration of the gear you own and will be using
-- and being able to say you have the same Red MX camera that
was used on the Social Network and is currently being used to
shoot Pirates 4 could carry some weight in closing clients.

Also, Ketch made a good point -- when you own the gear, you get
the chance to really familiarize yourself with it and get great with
the camera.

Anthony

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I am with Jeff, I don't rent gear, but myself - and the rental business i a business of its own which is not "having a RED".

That said...
Me being able to rent myself into high-end RED projects (and non-RED projects) does not relate in a small degree to me having a RED and digging out the quirks so I can give good, confident and proven advices to the ones I work for.

And I can do personal projects and stuff I want to do for fun or other good reasons, without worrying about gear.

I couldn't have done that if I occationally rented a RED to check it out.

If you buy any camera, RED or other - be sure to use it a lot and get good at it. Then you'll get the gigs.

 

[Mvanessa]

Hi,
I am also new here. Just wanted to say hello.

 

[Aaron Champion]

Aaron,

Some great advice here. LA is a massively competitive market,
probably the more than anyplace in the world.

That said, I remember posting ads on Craigslist for someone to
shoot one of our doctors at some Oscars pre-parties. I got so
many responses but what really stood out to me was how each
person highlighted the equipment he owned and would be using.

So that gives me the impression that many people do hire with
at least some consideration of the gear you own and will be using
-- and being able to say you have the same Red MX camera that
was used on the Social Network and is currently being used to
shoot Pirates 4 could carry some weight in closing clients.

Also, Ketch made a good point -- when you own the gear, you get
the chance to really familiarize yourself with it and get great with
the camera.

Anthony

Thank you so much Anthony, you have boosted my confidence.

 

[Aaron Champion]

Aaron,

I do believe that if you are already good at what you do, having your own gear does not help little.. it helps a LOT, especially in this economy were every one is looking to save , and you can give a better Package deal to any Job if you own the gear yourself, instead too have to deal with rental, also this will allow for less pressure of time and Budget if takes an extra day or two, good for you good for your clients.

But I would not invest in gear if I did not had a plan to put it to work, it really is never a good idea to have lots of money invested in gear that just seats there, so if you buy make sure you can put it to use.

Also let people know you do have the gear, put the word out and put the gear to work, even when not working, put the gear to work for Spec and Reel building , just shoot any time al the time.

If you need anything at all just shoot me an email..

Thank you for your advice and offer to email you with questions. I will surely do that in the future.

 

[John Marchant]

Not that it should affect anyone's decision making on a purchase, but I do wonder if the widespread culture of not owning the tools of one's trade might be responsible for some of the famous FUD that surrounds the Red One. Its also surely a situation that Red's price busting was intended to push against?

Owning equipment may not be a magic ticket, but a conscientious owner operator will undoubtedly be able to concentrate on their creativity, where a sometime renter may fall foul of any number of quirks, changes and unknowns.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I have my own camera... but unless its my own project.. It rarely gets rented when im DP on a project..

but in my opinion.. Owning a high end camera, lenses, and lighting package helps you practice. you can do it everyday on your own time and build your skills..
better than any film school 100%.. all I do when im not working is set up little scenes, shoot, read read read everything i can on cinematography and camera work..

If your looking to just "break in" by owning a camera.. id say Good Luck! there are about a million other people with that same mind set in LA, and they WILL undercut you for the job.

But.. if you have the extra coin laying around and can afford gear to help learn.. then id say go for it..

to be honest.. a cheap 7d or 5d, nice glass, and a lighting kit might be a better solution for that purpose..

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

To add to my above, it's great to own your own equipment. There are a lot of advantages to doing so; availability, rental fees really add up over time, freedom to experiment and learn, etc..

Like I said, it's rare that I get hired because I have the equipment.

 

[Aaron Champion]

I have my own camera... but unless its my own project.. It rarely gets rented when im DP on a project..

but in my opinion.. Owning a high end camera, lenses, and lighting package helps you practice. you can do it everyday on your own time and build your skills..
better than any film school 100%.. all I do when im not working is set up little scenes, shoot, read read read everything i can on cinematography and camera work..

If your looking to just "break in" by owning a camera.. id say Good Luck! there are about a million other people with that same mind set in LA, and they WILL undercut you for the job.

But.. if you have the extra coin laying around and can afford gear to help learn.. then id say go for it..

to be honest.. a cheap 7d or 5d, nice glass, and a lighting kit might be a better solution for that purpose..

Agreed. I already own a 5D, used to own an hvx200... light kits... great glass... the whole set up. like I said I have been a DP for about 5 years... just NOT in LA. I just figured in such a bigger market just owning a 5D and being a DP with 5 years experience wouldnt cut it. All I want to do is DP, anything, everything, I love it so much. So I dont want to get to LA, drag my family out there, and fail. Its all I want to do.

 

[jimhare]

Hi Aaron,

A lot of great advice here for both sides of the argument.

For me, owning a Red has been nothing short of wonderful.

Having access to it 24/7 and being able to use it for everything, not just the bigger projects, has given me exposure all over the place and business is booming.

In my opinion owning is a great way to go.

The only downfall is if you are planning a "if you build it they will come" scenario. Often doesn't pan out. I know a lot of starving R1 owners.

But if you have the contacts, the drive and the talent, and just need to slot in the quality to explode on the market, owning is the way to go.

Hope this helps.