Low Contrast Look in Camera

[Eric Lin]

Hey there. I'm prepping for a feature shooting on the MX chip and we are interested in a low contrast look and wondering how to achieve it in camera at least for on set viewing purposes.

I'm shooting on the Cooke S2/S3 Speed Panchros which are already less sharp than more modern lenses. But, I'm also interested in lifting the blacks a bit, going for the pulled processed film look.

In the in camera menus I see there are two ways to achieve this: through the VIDEO>TONE>CURVE settings where I mess with the X settings to lift the blacks. There is also settings under COLOR>SHADOW to affect the blacks.

I'm wondering though if either or both of these with result in some sort of significant noise penalty in the blacks? What's the best option to lift the blacks that people have had experience with? I'd appreciate any help. I'm testing tomorrow but hope to get insight before testing and figuring out what to look for.

Thanks in advance!

Best,
Eric Lin
NYC
DP

 

[Anson Fogel]

Eric,

Those are 2 of the generally preferred options. Those settings only affect metadata, not the recorded image itself - red records RAW, and all those settings - white balance, video looks, etc - are fungible in post. So no, it will not have any impact on your blacks.

Anson

 

[Antoine Fabi]

Hi Eric,

If you have access to the camera right now, you could test this:

In the curve menu, lower the mid values a little, and then the knee value a little (2 to 5 steps, not more).

I would not touch the black level for shooting monitoring though.
At factory settings, the blacks are not crushed at all.

It should be fairly close to old REC709 curve, which was low contrast compared to RED Gamma. For that purpose, 800 ISO should look very clean in the shadows.

Let me know if it is the look you want

Good luck

Antoine

 

[Dylan Macleod CSC]

Hi Eric
I'd recommend at your test - you shoot a test clip and load it in to REDCINE-X
Play with the curves (sounds like you want to lift the bottom end and mids a little) and then export the look to an SD card.
You can then load the look in to the camera.
Many threads on how to do this...

 

[Andrew Wilding]

I would personally avoid lifting the blacks in camera. You might inadvertently not use adequate fill in the shadows and end up with more noise than you are comfortable with. I personally would shoot everything straight, aim for the low contrast look with low contrast light - soft sources with a slim exposure range, with most stuff clumped together in the middle of the histogram. Meter the scene with a spot meter and try to keep everything within a couple of stops over and under. Avoid clipping highlights or very dark shadows during the shoot, then maybe lift the black a tiny bit in post and pastel the colours out. The challenge with low contrast is finding way to direct the eye within the frame, and keep things visually interesting. Also, production design plays such a huge part. Pastels, light greys, and interesting sets will make it much more effective.

 

[Cail Young]

fungible

One of my favourite, favourite words.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

It sounds like what you want is a final look that is near Log-ish.

I agree that you don't want the blacks lifted too much, just barely... our eyes/brain tend to want a black reference in the frame. So first I would light with more fill to get the contrast lower, or dress the frame with more mid-to-light tones.

But the noise in the blacks is fairly low with the M-X sensor except at really high ASA settings. You should be fine in the 500 to 800 ASA range even with slightly lifted blacks.

Another option to consider is LowCon / UltraCon / DigiCon type filters.

 

[Eric Lin]

Thanks all. I really appreciate the point of not lifting blacks because of the possibility of using too little fill and then gaining noise in the online to lift the shadows. Just the type of advice I was worried I wasn't considering in trying to play with this look.

I did the test and did like the shadows lifted just slightly at .2 while the director wanted to be more aggressive. So I think as a compromise, I'll shoot at .2 and do a test grade for him and let him know we'll go further in the grade.

Thanks for the help. Much appreciated!

Best,
Eric Lin
DP
NYC