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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is Avid the Best?

AnthonyFlores

AnthonyFlores

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Hi Guys,

Forgive my ignorance, I'm new to shooting with a Red and editing the footage. Since editing takes so much time to learn, I'm trying to figure out which editing program will be best to learn.

FCP seems relatively simple and intuitive, especially for a mac user like me. But Apple doesn't seem to want to put a lot of time into updating it.

I've heard a lot of good things about Adobe PP, especially working with native files and integrating with Photoshop or AfterEffects. But then again, it doesn't seem like that many features use Adobe. Maybe I'm wrong but ...

This leads me to Avid. MC seems like the industry standard and the most "future proof" investment of my time in learning a system. Though I'm not shooting features now, it seems like if I learn Avid -- it will allow me to go to the highest level without limitation.

Again, forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong. And if anyone has more hands-on understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of each system (Avid included) it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Anthony
 
I've used all three - learned them in the order of Premiere then AVID then newer premier, then Final Cut then newer premiere, then AVID.... my preference is Final Cut. Now, for RED, I've not tried with a mercurty card and all the r3d goodness natively - that seems lie a big advantage.... though the final cut to color does work and you work with proxies... and color is very powerful and included. Also - I think Final Cut isn't abandoned, I think it's on the RED-type of schedule which surprises me why RED supporters are so quick to abandon it. Apple did the same thing with Logic - everyone was thinknig it was abandoned and it came out with a new version which was simply so much better it was a paradgim shift. I really think at this point they're just waiting until a paradigm shift can happen and that's limited by some things which have to wait.

I have a hard time explaining why I never really sunk into AVID... maybe whimsical preference... but it never grew on me. (I've used a bunch of other systems some which don't exist now too as well.)
 
my experience,
commercials and musicvideos on final cut, features on avid now (the avid is new to me a d i like it), fcp is more open and you edit more wild. avid is more structured
 
Depending on market, etc. you will find MC, FCP, Sony Vegas, and Premiere Pro. All of them have been used to edit spots, videos, television, features, etc. You tend to find more Media Composer when projects rely on collaboration and good metadata management such as features and television. Single system projects, or personal projects can be managed pretty easily by any of them.

You will find decisions being made for different reasons. The personal projects, or single system configurations may look to a system for the way they deal with a particular codec, since that is all they may be using. Others look to the need of project management, etc. I know I am biased, but I look to the editing system for its ability to let me tell a story and be able to deliver those decisions to my sound person, DI colorist, should I choose not to be the one doing those tasks. Features like ScriptSync and management of dailies are indispensable means to find and select the perfect take, read, reaction, etc. to move that story forward. That is why I edit. Codec support is not the only criteria as systems will always leap frog each other in that area depending on where they are in their development cycle. Telling a story comes from the person using the system, and a set of tools that supports that storytelling is the one you choose to make your primary tool. As a freelancer, you may need, and should know the major ones anyway.

Michael
 
Thanks all. This helps ... maybe you just need to learn more than one system.

Michael, I was reading about ScriptSync last night -- do you find that it works well?
 
Also, does anyone know if a particular NLE system requires more CPU horsepower to run properly?

I ask because I currently have a Macbook Pro 3.06/8gb/SSD128 and probably won't be able to upgrade to a MacPro 8 or 12 core for a few months.

It seems like many FCP and PP users work off their laptop, but I don't get the impression this is as true for Avid users.

What's your guys opinion on this?
 
Avid MC works great on a laptop. Doesn't feel any heavier than FCP or PP - as long as you're using Avid's codec for your footage (DNXHD).

I remember reading an article on Inception's post workflow, and the editor was talking about how he cut a lot of the film on his laptop on location while they were travelling/shooting in different countries.

The funny thing is I've see a lot of lower budget features out here still cutting on old OS9 Avids!

I'm using all three NLEs for different things. They're all great, and frustrating at the same time! :smile:
 
I love ScriptSync and you will find similar statements from other users if you do a Google search. One of the issues is if there is a lot of ad-libbing going on, then of course it can't find a match, but then that workflow looks a lot like a transcript workflow. Did you watch the demo video on avid.com for how it works?

Michael
 
Kenn Michael said:
I remember reading an article on Inception's post workflow, and the editor was talking about how he cut a lot of the film on his laptop on location while they were traveling/shooting in different countries.
Click to expand...

This is quite common. With DNxHD 36, you can put 60 hours or so on a 1TB drive. The film "Milk was cut entirely on a laptop near the set.

Michael
 
I have an expensive and 'dusty' Avid Adrenaline which I like to put my coffee cup on while I cut on the new Premier with good NVidia card for Mercury. I tut to myself nearly every day for spending a stupid amount of money on it. I have other coffee coasters that aren't as bulky!
 
A lot of Avid editors I know do a rollback to MC4.5, they say MC5 is so buggy it´s barely usable. AMA doesn't really work as advertised and most of them are in that annoying transcoding game again.

I never got the idea of all that posh new laptop editing.
I got a mobile full blown self contained workstation in a handy flight case on wheels, if I absolutely think I have to edit on set or in a hotel. 8 TB raid, Premiere Pro, Mercury, 21inch display and calibrated program monitor - ready to edit RAW or uncompressed in realtime.

Why should I fiddle around with a underpowered slow notebook?
Convenient? Who cares? In my book pros go for quality instead of convenience, but I´m probably a extincting generation.

Today some guys have problems to add a proper mattebox, rails and FF to their - oh so fast and convenient - DSLRs cause they get "to heavy" for them, so they can´t work that way.
Tripods? Uh noooo! To heavy and cumbersome for the iPhone Generation.

LOL - try a 1990s shoulder camcorder ladies.

So why should one want to edit on a laptop instead of a professional NLE?

1. You are a student and all your $$ went into a MacBook.
2. You are working with low data rate material only.
3. You have lot´s of time on your hands.
4. Color isn't critical
5. You don't mind transcoding from a - already highly compressed codec into an other compressed codec.

Frank
 
@frank
working with a laptop has its place, so has a workstation.
and ama is limited by the 32 bit structure of avid, but great for commercials.
i'd like a an avid version with rocket playback too. but getting more familiar with avid everyday, i think, its the right choice when going through a multi editor, lots of footage (multicam, 70+ hours) pipeline which will be onlined, color corrected and finished somewhere else (this time baselight at the post republic)

but fcp has is strenghts too, i dreamed of an complete online redworkflow too, but on larger projects with different versions, the offline online workflow still makes sense

@david
doesnt adrenaline have a different task then MC

@ michael
what are the differences between a dnxhd mxf workflow and dnxhd qt workflow?
 
 
Thanks Oliver!

I actually came across your blog yesterday when I was researching Magic Bullet looks for use with Red footage. It's an awesome resource.

I will definitely check this out, gotta make a decision in the next week or two.

Anthony
 
Thanks for the kind words. Remember that Avid MC can be installed for a 30-day trial period. Might be worth checking out if you are unsure. There really is no wrong choice between Avid MC and FCP. It gets down to personal preference.

- Oliver
 
Frank, you make some good points ... and funny. You're right, perhaps there's a little too much of obsession with portability these days.

I myself hate anything slow -- slow internet, slow processors, slow transcoding, slow rendering, etc.

Yet the fact that an amazing $200 million movie like Inception was edited partly on a laptop tells you that it's certainly functional, and perhaps sometimes necessary or more effective -- especially in situations where a movie is shot in so many different locations and it's hard to have the right "complete" setup.

I will definitely be getting a 12-core at some point, probably from Silverado with a RedRocket, but for now if I can make things work on my laptop, I will.

It cost me $4000 last year, which is far beyond the justifiable cost of a machine I needed to write ad copy and be on skype calls -- so hopefully I can at least do a little editing with it here and there, until I get a Mac Pro.

Thanks for the feedback :-)

Anthony
 
MichaelP said:
I love ScriptSync and you will find similar statements from other users if you do a Google search. One of the issues is if there is a lot of ad-libbing going on, then of course it can't find a match, but then that workflow looks a lot like a transcript workflow. Did you watch the demo video on avid.com for how it works?

Michael
Click to expand...

Just be aware guys that ScriptSync does not come standard w/ MC 5.

IIUC, it is now a $1,000 plug-in.
 
AnthonyFlores said:
Hi Guys,

Forgive my ignorance, I'm new to shooting with a Red and editing the footage. Since editing takes so much time to learn, I'm trying to figure out which editing program will be best to learn.

FCP seems relatively simple and intuitive, especially for a mac user like me. But Apple doesn't seem to want to put a lot of time into updating it.

I've heard a lot of good things about Adobe PP, especially working with native files and integrating with Photoshop or AfterEffects. But then again, it doesn't seem like that many features use Adobe. Maybe I'm wrong but ...

This leads me to Avid. MC seems like the industry standard and the most "future proof" investment of my time in learning a system. Though I'm not shooting features now, it seems like if I learn Avid -- it will allow me to go to the highest level without limitation.

Again, forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong. And if anyone has more hands-on understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of each system (Avid included) it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Anthony
Click to expand...

Anthony, there are a lot more similarities than differences between NLE's. That's probably b/c everyone ripped off Avid from the get go, LOL :angry:.

So if you learn on FCP, PP, Vegas or Avid, it won't be like you're in completely different world if you switch to another platform.

I have to say that for Red footage, Adobe seems to be the choice of most users these days. Also be aware of the fact that while high end feature work is still dominated by Avid, if you will be collaborating mid range and lower end stuff, you're going to see a lot of FCP. (One of the side benefits I love about Avid is it's easy to refuse a "favor" type job b/c most of those are FCP and I just say I use Avid and the conversation usually ends.)


To be honest, it doesn't sound like you are going to be cutting features any time too soon, so what's used on "Dark Knight" really should matter too much right now, IMHO.

Avid has a 30-day trial, so I'd check that out. I believe Vegas does as well. Not sure about FCP and CS5.

Good luck :).
 
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