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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Jumping Ship

The 8 bit argument is very weak. Go rewatch Planet Earth, shot mostly at 960x720 at 8bit on the original tape-based Varicam. Yes, raw allows much more latitude in post... so maybe shooting in 8 bit to start will be a help in knowing that you have to get it right in the field rather than fix it in post. In any case, this is an amazing time to be shooting, and anyone getting in to the field now, I envy you! In my day the best you could hope for under 10k was the Canon XL1 or Sony VX1000, pathetic compared with what just a couple of grand will buy you today.
 
Lawrence Bansbach said:
With any luck, you may get your wish, but I wouldn't count on it.
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It's just wishful thinking.

Realistically I think Scarlet S35 is a 2012 camera. Maybe even late 2012, since from the tone of Jim's statements I'd say Scarlet 2/3 isn't hitting on the first half of 2011.

RED isn't giving any signs that they are going to stop being incredibly late.

It's really sad that 80% of future Scarlet owners went from incredibly optimistic to semi-indiferent in such a short while.

If I were RED I'd release some Scarlet footage ASAP.
 
Thank you everyone who answered, gave me a lot to think about.
 
Thomas Church said:
It's just wishful thinking.
Realistically I think Scarlet S35 is a 2012 camera. Maybe even late 2012, since from the tone of Jim's statements I'd say Scarlet 2/3 isn't hitting on the first half of 2011....
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Red hasn't hinted at anything either way. And it doesn't matter really..
they come out when they're ready. And no-one will even be able
to remember how long they took to come out if they are blown
away by the pictures and features.

As far as AF-100 it is supposed to hit in December but what they showed
at the DV expo still had some features missing. The viewfinder will have
increased resolution..etc. It is not done yet..but Panasonic will make
the deadline. Still they seem cutting it kinda close. Panasonic has a
Lumix 10-140 zoom lens that you can pair with the AF-100 which gives
you a $6,000 camera which is right up in Scarlet territory price. But
Scarlet will have some revolutionary features whereas the AF-100 seems
more like something Panasonic threw together to get some quick
end of year sales.

Personally would skip the AF-100 for GH-2 and then move to Scarlet in 2011.
Gh-2 seems much cleaner than the other HDSLRs. And only costs $900
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCxPFga8elk
 
Thomas Church said:
It's just wishful thinking.

...since from the tone of Jim's statements I'd say Scarlet 2/3 isn't hitting on the first half of 2011.

...

It's really sad that 80% of future Scarlet owners went from incredibly optimistic to semi-indiferent in such a short while.

...
Click to expand...

Funny how people interpret things completely differently. I wouldn't say that about Jim's "tone" at all.

And here's one future Scarlet owner that isn't the least bit "indifferent." And, again, I would hardly agree with your "80%" figure.

You may be right, or not, (we will never really know) but what is the point of just making this stuff up?

"79.3% of people in the world wish they were 2.47 inches taller." :willy_nilly:
 
Mark Phelan said:
100% WRONG. http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48362

But another example of why one should always, "consider the source".
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I think what he meant by "may never be available", was that they could decide not to bring it to market. In that case, a prototype or even a whole handful of prototypes would not matter since no one can buy them.

There is only one 100% fail safe way to know if RED will ever bring the Scarlet to market. That is, when you see them for sale in the RED store. Any predictions before that are just speculation. They will always be able to change their direction, regardless of what's been put out there in forum posts. Prices, models, features,... all these things are likely to change over time.
 
I don't remember RED canceling a camera yet. The Scarlet hasn't been cancelled... merely improved. The Epic hasn't been cancelled... the Red One hasn't been cancelled.
 
Elsie N said:
I don't remember RED canceling a camera yet. The Scarlet hasn't been cancelled...
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Well that is debatable. The name is still the same, but the original camera and concept has been scraped. And with regards to the original claim that RED made, they have failed EPICally... with regards to schedule, price and target market. That is undeniable.

It's kinda like CLAIMING that you're going to run a marathon and then cycling 200 miles instead. Cycling 200 miles is impressive, but still, you didn't run a marathon. To me, claiming before you know you can pull it off is embarrassing. Hence the barrage abuse that RED is receiving right now.
 
Richard_JP said:
The name is still the same, but the original camera and concept has been scraped. And with regards to the original claim that RED made, they have failed EPICally... with regards to schedule, price and target market. That is undeniable.
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I am trying to understand where you are coming from. On Nov. 13th, 2008 (almost 2 years ago) Jim announced everything previously announced had changed and there was now the one DSMC system. There were two different brain lineups you could drop into the system: The Professional Scarlet brain and the Master Professional Epic brain.

Jannard said:
Select a Scarlet or EPIC "brain" and configure your body to anything you want.

Scarlet is a Professional "brain". EPIC is a Master Professional "brain".
Click to expand...

The 2/3" Scarlet brain was listed at $2,500 and the fixed kit at $3,750. Jim said they hoped to ship by Summer 2008. Jim and Jarred have admitted there biggest problem is predicting delivery dates (read Jim saying to count on delays way back on Dec. 2nd, 2008).

DSMC development took way longer then they had hoped and the Canon 5D and 7D shipped and satisfied some of the potential Scarlet customers.

On Nov. 30th, 2009 Jim announced they were still working on DSMC development and had decided to add features to Scarlet to keep it competitive. The price for the 2/3" Scarlet brain went up $250 to $2,750 and the fixed kit went up to $4,750.

In summer 2010 Jim announced they had run into a major bug in the DSMC system that was delaying it even further.

Recently RED has made progress on the DSMC system and they have started showing us features as they were enabled in the prototypes. Jim was especially excited about how good HDRx looked and decided it should be standard to the DSMC system. Since they had already developed it for Epic, it could be added to Scarlet for only $1,000 extra.

The 2/3" cinema Scarlet brain is now $3,750 and the fixed $5,750.

I understand the jump in price from $2,500 to $3,750 for the cinema and $3,750 to $5,750 is hard for some but it hardly seems like this has priced Scarlet out of the indie market altogether.

I think it is also important to understand that the huge delay is a result of the complexity of the core DSMC system (ASICs, boards and firmware), and that the added features aren't what stopped Scarlet from being shipped in 2008.
 
What Justin said + the fact that RED hasn't kept to its original promises... they've exceeded them.

And in regard to RED not following through with the initial Scarlet concept... that camera would have been obsolete the minute it was released if they split it with models that had HDRx. RED would have been just another short-life camera company if they had done that.
 
I'm sure there are those who hate RED for the "hype" but I think the large majority are just people wanting the best but simply not having the budget. When RED said 3k for 3k it was mind blowing. A camera like that would be a huge change for the industry and when they said it, we wanted it...immediately. But now things have changed and I think most of us understand. It's just hard to come down from that high. Is Scarlet out of the question and too expensive? No, absolutely not but it is higher than what we thought we'd be seeing and that in itself is a bit disheartening.

People are going to attack RED no matter what and people are going to defend RED no matter what. The same stuff happened back in the pre-REDONE era. Is all hope lost on Scarlet and do we NEED to "jump ship"? Of course not but a lot of people are going to be frustrated when their expectations aren't met. 3k for 3k has been dead for awhile and we've gotten used to it but every price increase brings back those feelings of how badly we all wanted that initial promise.

I don't blame RED at all and I'm not mad at them one bit. But when a camera seems out of reach, people are going to start looking elsewhere. We shouldn't blame those people or look down on them for doing so but rather try and understand their financial limitations. The Reduser boards have been a great place for information and help from professionals in the industry and I'm hoping we continue this tradition.
 
Elsie N said:
And in regard to RED not following through with the initial Scarlet concept... that camera would have been obsolete the minute it was released if they split it with models that had HDRx™. RED would have been just another short-life camera company if they had done that.
Click to expand...

We don't want to put out a different model at price points every $100 with crippled features released every few months. HDRx is now as important as REDcode and very hard to imagine any future cameras without it.
 
Deanan said:
We don't want to put out a different model at price points every $100 with crippled features released every few months. HDRx™ is now as important as REDcode and very hard to imagine any future cameras without it.
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Deanan,

agree with it and hopefully that people who complain about the new Scarlet pricing will finally get that message now.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
hopefully that people who complain about the new Scarlet pricing will finally get that message now.
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As much as I am behind RED in the HDRx™ choice... and can luckily afford the price hike... I don't think people who are on a very tight budget need to be harassed for having an opinion about the new pricing, especially by people fortunate enough to be able to afford R1-MX and Epic.

People have been following this process for a very long time, helping to generate buzz while chasing their dream... if they finally get priced out, they have a right to say so, I feel.

If $1000 is something that you think is nothing to earn or borrow... then maybe you shouldn't be commenting on people who see it is the straw that broke the camel's back.
 
Deanan said:
We don't want to put out a different model at price points every $100 with crippled features released every few months. HDRx™ is now as important as REDcode and very hard to imagine any future cameras without it.
Click to expand...

Hard to imagine any camera without it. More like hard for us to imagine any camera with it. HDRx™ (regarding the Scarlet) are just letters, nothing more, as we saw no footage before it had the new feature and footage after. Just letters...
 
Justin O'Neill said:
Richard_JP said:
Elsie N said:
I don't remember RED canceling a camera yet. The Scarlet hasn't been cancelled... merely improved.
Click to expand...
Well that is debatable. The name is still the same, but the original camera and concept has been scraped. And with regards to the original claim that RED made, they have failed EPICally... with regards to schedule, price and target market. That is undeniable.
Click to expand...
I am trying to understand where you are coming from. On Nov. 13th, 2008 (almost 2 years ago) Jim announced everything previously announced had changed and there was now the one DSMC system. There were two different brain lineups you could drop into the system: The Professional Scarlet brain and the Master Professional Epic brain.
Click to expand...
At least in part, Richard_JP was taking issue with Elsie's claim that Red has never canceled a camera. His argument -- that the original $3K nonmodular camera had been scrapped -- has merit. Much of the case for the price increases goes like this: "The '3K for $3K' camera concept is dead. This is a very different camera. Where will you find anything else remotely comparable for less than XXXXX dollars [pick your own price point]?" And that's a fair case. But either it's a new camera or it's not.

As to the rest -- Red's failure to meet the original's "schedule, price and target market" -- meh, that's beyond debate. Jim long ago conceded Red is bad at schedules and recently officially redefined Red's target market. And the price increases have all been explained. "Subject to change" and all that.
 
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