How Do YOU Make Money from Your Red?

[AnthonyFlores]

Well, it seems Jim's recent Recon posts have generated quite a stir ...
many feel outraged that -- in addition to delays -- the features and
PRICES have continued to rise.

Some even feel left out in the cold, no longer unable to afford the
future Scarlet camera ...

Others feel insulted that, because they're not making a lot of money
with their cameras, they are therefore not "pros" and being lumped
into the the soccer Mom category.

I don't think any of this is Red's intention, however, I think there's
an opportunity for everyone to come together and share how they
make money from their Red cameras -- or PLAN to make money,
so that others here who are worried about rising costs might be
able to creatively finance their camera or project.

So ... for current Red users/owners who have made money or
currently make money using your camera, it would be amazing
if you could post and describe your experience. It may help other
beginners see opportunities that they had not seen before, and
therefore see how both the Scarlet and maybe even the Epic
are actually within their affordability, if it can be quickly monetized ...

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Wow - that's a really long post. :emote_hanged:

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Hi Terry,

Sorry I'm a writer so sometimes I get carried away! But I don't
want it to be so long it makes it hard for people to read and
respond as that would be a shame -- I think this is an important
subject.

By the way, I know you are one of the most avid posters on these
boards ... what kind of work do you do?

Anthony

 

[AnthonyFlores]

In case anyone is wondering ...

In case anyone is wondering ...

A word about me: I'm NOT a current Red owner, or even what
I would call a true "Red user" ... however, I have played around
with one, and have the intention of getting both a Scarlet and Epic
(from a friend who is going to sell me my Stage 2). I currently shoot
on ... gasp ... a 5D which was actually fairly expensive to accessorize
when you factor in the lenses, rig, batteries, cards, etc.

About my work: I am a direct response copywriter by trade and
earn a good living doing that. However, our industry (and indeed the
entire internet) is leaning more in the direction of video as a sales
medium versus text. So I'm taking this time to transition my clients
and projects over to video marketing, rather than just text ad copy.

I am typically paid on fee ($10-15,000) + royalty (5% of net sales)
basis, though both rates will almost certainly go up once I have
some successful online video campaigns finished.

In theory, a successful project can pay me $50-100,000 or more,
though it doesn't always work out that way -- because marketing
is never a guaranteed thing. But I do my best to pick products and
services I feel will be winners.

Since each project takes about a month, it's fairly easy to see how
I can justify and pay for good camera system -- even if it's in
the $20,000-30,000 range or more.

My dream is of course more than this ... right now, I'm going to keep
using my 5D to create successful/profitable projects that generate
profits in the $200,000-$300,000 range over the next 6 months.
If I can do that, I have an investor -- with whom I'm working on
a business plan -- who can help me get up to $1-2 million in investment
capital to create a full fledged production studio with everything ...
Epic camera bodies, cinema lenses, all the support gear, etc. We
would own everything, including our location, and make money
from both projects and rentals.

Of course, my current clients don't need 5k quality for the web (yet)
but I want the room to grow and be able to put our commercials and
marketing campaigns on TV, and even in direct mail campaigns with
HD DVDs or Blu Rays about the products.

I will focus on my main client in the beginning and ensure we make our
projects highly profitable, but also set up the infrastructure to where other
commercial clients can be taken on (later) if we so desire.

Another BIG part of this dream is to have the equipment and staff needed
to shoot full feature films that we write and develop. This is the passion
component -- if it makes money great, but is not expected to. That's
the beauty of having the equipment around and fully paid for from
the commercial work.

And last but not least, we will have a non-profit side that will -- 4 times
each year, once a quarter -- create films and marketing materials that
worthy organizations can use to get more funding and support for
their cause.

Overall, this vision is long-term and will happen in steps. I don't fully
need a Red Scarlet or Epic now (the 5D will work fine for my current
web campaigns) however, as we grow we will need to upgrade the level
of our work and the quality of our imagery -- and that's why I'm so excited
about what Red is doing.

Anthony

 

[C. Jagan Mohan]

...........Anybody is there to reply for this?......

 

[Kalani Prince]

I plan on using Scarlet for everything I'm using the 5D for now.. Demo vids, online stuffs, short films.. I'd love to just go back to using the 5D2 as a great stills cam : ) Maybe music vids here on Maui.. I've been wanting a camera with these capabilities before I could even define what these capabilities were.. Mainly RAW for christs sake! Jim, you rule!

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Thanks Kalani ... do you feel the extra capabilities of the Scarlet would enable you to charge more, or get more clients?

It's cool to see someone posting from Hawaii ....

 

[Julio Quintana]

In some ways, this is sort of like asking a group of professional musicians how they make money off of their guitars. As cameras get cheaper and cheaper (and the Scarlet IS ridiculously cheap), it will be more difficult to make money just by owning equipment.
Pretty much any respectable camera operator gig will pay at least $500/day for the operator and an inexpensive camera like an HVX200, EX1, etc. That means you could pay back your Scarlet in a dozen days of decent work if you are good at what you do.
Bottom line, don't buy a Scarlet and think you will make money off of rentals. It's too cheap for that. Learn how to make yourself invaluable on a set, and people will pay you a little extra to bring your camera along.

 

[Wensean Chen]

Making money just by owning a camera is not easy. Although my RED ONE really making money by itself thanks to Jim and red team.

I always see RED ONE as a gift. So what I am trying to do is to adjust our "business model" to fit this wonderful camera. In this summer 2010, I start to shoot all my corporate work in 4.5K then edit in 4.5K even none of my clients are asking. I play around with time lapse and high frame rate. At the same time they may not even know what is FPS. Because I believe after they review my work. They should learn more what is RED all about and the same passion and spirit run through our team and work. Hope that works. There is no other camera shoot native 7:3 in this resolution yet except film. I'd got to use it because life is too short.

So since I know the EPIC shot 120fps in 5K 7:3 ......that is just a dream coming true!

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Wensean Chen: Making money just by owning a camera is not easy. Although my RED ONE really making money by itself thanks to Jim and red team.

Yes I know it doesn't make money just by owning, what I meant was how do Red owners (or renters) USE their company to earn money on their projects.

Commercials? Music videos? Corporate videos? Features?

And I was hoping those working with clients could chime in and help others who know how to shoot things, but perhaps don't yet know how to get PAID for shooting with the camera.

Anthony

 

[Julian Gerretsen]

Others feel insulted that, because they're not making a lot of money
with their cameras, they are therefore not "pros" and being lumped
into the the soccer Mom category....

I think professional is more a state of mind than a state of economics. I am certainly not what you might call a "media professional", although I do make a significant amount of my income from video and photography. However, I consider myself "professional" in the way I tackle my photography/film projects, because of the attitude I approach them with.

I think professional is a mindset that says, "I am not prepared to settle for second best or go down the average route". e.g. "I am not prepared to settle for the compromise of HDV with a 35mm adaptor when I know that there is something infinitely superior out there."

To use an unrelated example: My mom is a superb harpist. She practices every day, is called upon to play at events/functions and could easily take her place in a symphony orchestra (we are a musical family). She makes almost no money from her "harping" but has relentlessly driven herself to her current professional level of expertise. For her, there is no harp that will satisfy her sense of professionalism than an English Erard, an extremely expensive and exceptionally crafted musical instrument with beautiful tone and timbre. She could easily have bought a mass produced Yamaha or other cheap mass market beginner level instrument. Yet she scrimped and saved and drove herself into at last buying an Erard because nothing else would have satisfied her internal sense of musical professionalism.

I know "professional attitude" non-professionals who would gladly forgo many other luxuries in order to be able to afford the professional level of film equipment that they believe that their work deserves.

I am also aware of "career professionals" who are just interested in the income and thus skimp on the quality of equipment. After all, if the clients are happy with HDV, why bother to invest in film quality style equipment, after all, it's just unwanted overhead. It's a business after all. Deliver an acceptable product so the client will pay and maximise your profit at the same time. Excellence for these guys is sometimes quite far down the list of priorities (and this is not a criticism either, sometimes it is just a reality for certain businesses).

So for anyone who is feeling insulted because of the recent announcement or feeling that they are not "Pro", I would turn the argument on it's head and say that if anything, you should feel like more of a "Pro" now, because it is obvious that RED expects it's client base to have an approach that demands professional and excellent equipment.

This might be generalising a bit, but.... if someone is happy to drop $20K on a new car every 4 years but are concerned about an extra couple of $K on the price of a new RED, which will help revolutionise their craft over other image making tools, then perhaps they need to re-assess just how seriously they are taking their art?

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Julian, you make some good points. I'm similar and even
when it comes to music (which I'm not great) I was willing
to drop $5000 on a Les Paul because it was "the best."

Same with Red. Even though I don't need 3k or 4k
resolution for my current projects, I hate investing in
something that I know will limit me later on as I evolve.
I avoid doing that whenever I can afford to. So I would be
one of the people with no hesitation about buying an
$8000 Scarlet body and accessorizing it for another
$10-15,000 if necessary.

It is a state of mind, and I think a lot of people who are
very concerned about the Scarlet price actually think this
way ... but perhaps mentally got locked in to it being a
certain price.

Not really sure. By the way, you mentioned making good
income from your photography and video ... what kinds
of projects do you do?

 

[Julian Gerretsen]

Hi Anthony,

Film-wise, I do an assorted hodge-podge of jobs:

- Photographing/Filming weddings and presenting a complete "package" to clients (the bread and butter of owning camera's)
- Photographing/Filming corporate events
- Short commissioned films, usually for educational purposes (e.g. a video to accompany a high school course)

That pretty much sums up the bulk of the work I do myself on a paid basis. I also work with/assist a professional on commercial projects for some of the UK TV stations, in various capacities (boom operator, lighting etc.). I also do some freebies for film students and a fair amount of photography/filming work for our church. I used to be the chief videographer for a charity operating in West Africa (literally operating.... it was a medical charity)

Having an R1 now will allow me to make a proper attempt at filming a feature film that I have been putting off for years now, because there just wasn't any realistic and economical way to do it before RED came along.

 

[Matt Uhry]

We got the ATM module for #513 and it just prints out crisp $20 bills. Really cool, one of the best things about the camera. You guys did not get that ?


Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[martinnoweck]

We got the ATM module for #513 and it just prints out crisp $20 bills. Really cool, one of the best things about the camera. You guys did not get that ?

my ATM module crashes from time to time - which software version are you on, matt?

 

[Christopher Racioppi]

Starting out, Please help!!

Starting out, Please help!!

Hello all, I am a film student %100 serious about the Epic. A few years ago when I got into HDR photography it was a dream of mine for HDR video. Now it's finally here, I'm willing to do anything to get to it. I've done much research, and now I'm just looking for tips or helpful advice. I know many people think I'm insane and others may say it's impossible, but I am all in for this one. Thanks!
-Chris

 

[Julian Gerretsen]

We got the ATM module for #513 and it just prints out crisp $20 bills. Really cool, one of the best things about the camera. You guys did not get that ?


Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Matt do they do a £ Sterling version of that module (not that it really matters but would save a few bob on the exchange charges)?

 

[Owen James]

my ATM module crashes from time to time - which software version are you on, matt?

you will definitely have to reboot it a few times, or possibly roll back to an earlier build, be sure to do a green shading calibration on it especially if you will be working the US market.

 

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

We got the ATM module for #513 and it just prints out crisp $20 bills. Really cool, one of the best things about the camera. You guys did not get that ?


Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

We got that too, but it´s such a hassle going to the bank to exchange all those bills all the time (as we want Norweigan kroner instead), so we just use them as lens cleaning tissues.

I am thinking about going to NAB next year, then it might come in handy ;-)

Serious reply, short version: To make money with your RED, you service clients, who will pay enough to cover the cost of the camera/accessories BEFORE it is outdated (including interest). To help out in this you can rent it, but that is a lot more complicated.

 

[Leo Ticheli]

It's very easy to make a million dollars with a Red. Simply start with two million dollars.

OK, OK, it's an old joke. Seriously, you just show your clients what their stuff will look like shot on Red, and throw in the capability to pull gorgeous stills for print. If they're old film lovers, show them the Red vs. 35MM film bid; if it's at all stock intensive, that seals the deal.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo