Possible solution for quieter EPIC & Scarlet fans!

[michael zaletel]

From Adam Wilt's article:

"True, buzzy fans are part and parcel of the compact form, but that’s a compromise I’m willing to accept. The nearly silent blowers used in the Alexa, or the Aaton digital back, are only possible when you have a camera the size of an Alexa: near-silence requires low velocity air, and low velocity requires larger passages and radiators. Presumably the little guys quiet down during a take, as the fans on a RED ONE do."

So I was thinking...

Perhaps RED could license Dyson's air multiplier technology used in their new bladeless fans, shrink it down and provide the same airflow required with less noise and fewer moving parts.

http://www.dyson.com/technology/airmultiplier.asp

http://www.dyson.com/fans/

Thoughts?

-michael zaletel

 

[Clint Lealos]

I think that is a very interesting idea, but my first thought was that maybe it wouldn't work on such a small scale. Dyson's website said this:

"Hundreds of iterative tests revealed the ideal ramp angle, aperture width and loop amplifier dimensions."

Would changing the amplifier dimensions mean the mini dyson wouldn't be effective? Not sure, and if so how much less effective?

I'm not an expert in any of this, but it would seem that the Dyson amplifier system needs to be in relatively open space in order to draw in air using entrainment. Once you put it in a little box I think it will no longer work. Maybe a housing could be designed to enable it to draw in air from the sides, but how much efficiency would be lost? Probably a bunch. I really have no idea if it would work or not, but I sure like the idea of Red and Dyson working together Two of my favorite companies. Thanks for posting an interesting idea Michael. You might be on to something.

 

[michael zaletel]

Thanks. I wouldn't think the overall scale would affect anything other than airflow volume. RED has enough genius engineers that if there's a will, and it's possible, there's a way.

Would be cool to have bladeless fans on EPIC and Scarlet.

-michael zaletel

 

[Stacey Spears]

Given the cost of Dyson products, that would probably add at least $500 to the price.

 

[Deanan]

There's a fan in the base of the dyson so you're not actually removing a fan.
If you tried to put it close to another object, the dynamics of how it increases airflow starts to fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8he8afjQyd8

 

[michael zaletel]

Thanks Deanan.

But the scale of the fan in the base compared to the bladed fan it is essentially replacing is so small that on the scale of cooling for the EPIC, it could be a very, very tiny fan, much quieter right?

It probably doesn't make sense to use the same technology but perhaps some of Dyson's patents that did not make it into this product or that only work on small scale could solve the problem of cooling EPIC in a quieter and more efficient fashion. Imagine how many engineers they have working on related technology.

You could at least call them, explain the engineering requirements and problems with current solutions and ask them if they have any current or yet to be released patented or patent pending technology you could license to customize your own solution. No point reinventing a better fan/cooling system if they've already got a prototype in some lab somewhere. Companies like Dyson love to get early license deals (even at minimal royalty fees) on patent-pending technology because it further protects their patent rights and protections worldwide.

Can't hurt to call them or their IP attorney of record?

-michael zaletel

 

[andrewhake]

I am sure RED's engineering teams has been through many options as far as cooling is concerned. Doesn't sound like it is that much of a concern from the article if they quiet down when it is logical to do so.

It would be interesting to see if you could get away with lower velocity fans by reworking the way it is delivered to the electronics. I doubt electronics care very much about buffeting though.

 

[michael zaletel]

Hey Deanan:

What about "Electro-Hydrodynamic" cooling? This article was written 15 months ago!

http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/cliff-kuang/design-innovation/fan-free-future-laptop-cooling

-michael zaletel

 

[Deanan]

Thanks Deanan.

But the scale of the fan in the base compared to the bladed fan it is essentially replacing is so small that on the scale of cooling for the EPIC, it could be a very, very tiny fan, much quieter right?

The fan would be too small then to push any decent amount of air, let alone the static pressure needed. Then you're trying to use the amplifying effect on alot of obstruction which defeats the purpose of the amplifying effect. On top of that, you'd need a big tunnel in the front of the camera to get the air up to speed.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

So Apple!

So Apple!

I can't believe you are actually falling for the Dyson marketing BS. Their (marketing) take on aero dynamics doesn't really make much (scientific physics wise)sense...
On a second thought- I actually can believe it....
The Vacuum cleaners are pretty with these vivid colors and clear plastic housings- that's all it takes for a house wife..

 

[Stephen Lovett]

Aren't we assuming a problem that we don't know for certain we have yet?

I know Adam, he's a very smart and amiable guy. So I'm absolutely not saying he's incorrect in his statement, but his comments were based on a prototype.

Further there are a number of manufactures like silent-x that build excellent products, so this is an area that's pretty well understood. Unlike most of what RED is doing to build us Epic

Perhaps I'm being naive, but this particular "problem" isn't even on my radar, and I'm confident that if there is an issue that would get in the way of production it would get flagged in the tattoo program.

All the best,

Steve

 

[Jeff Coatney]

Nothing's stopping the enterprising third party manufacturer from creating an add-on that sucks the air out of the top. You could theoretically side-step the on-board fan limitation if you wanted.

 

[Erik Franzén]

When I read the topic title I thought this was about a plan to make all the whiners go away -- but I guess "fans" is up to interpretation.:laugh:

 

[Bob Gruen]

I can't believe you are actually falling for the Dyson marketing BS. Their (marketing) take on aero dynamics doesn't really make much (scientific physics wise)sense...

On the contrary, as someone who has taken classes on fluid dynamics I can tell you that the marketing on their website does a real good job of explaining how it works. Also, a simple trip to Best Buy to see one in action will convince you that their claims are accurate.

I've never opened a Red One, but seeing how the body heats up I'd assume that any heat generating components inside are probably thermally attached to the body via heat pipes, and that the single fan that we all know and love probably blows on the CPU's heat sink directly. I imagine it would look a lot like the inside of a high performance gaming computer, although a lot tighter.

Looking at Epic, the first thing I'd assume is that it is using a much more energy efficient CPU (look at the size of the new battery system). This means less heat and and therefor an easier job managing that heat.

Bob