Arg i need scarlet right now!

[Jeremy_Sawatzky]

I need to get a camera right now! im not happy with whats out there! im searching the classifieds for a new camera because my last one broke. i dont want to spend alot of money because scarlet is around the corner. I know i could maybe sell the camera when it comes out. so that kinda makes it easier to spend more money. blast it all. im so torn by this. and cant decide what to do. Im having a really hard time finding a decent camera thats hd, records to solid state or harddrive, xlr inputs. and not 17 decades old tech. if only scarlet were here, it would solve all my problems.... the af-100 is looking so tasty..... If i didnt know scarlet was just around the corner id have no problem picking up an af-100.

im sure im not the only one. - end of rant

 

[Evin Grant]

Nikon D7000 looks like a nice hold-over, not too pricy either.

 

[Subhadip Sen]

As has been said time and time again, use the best (for you) that is available. Scarlet will release when its ready, but don't "anticipate" it (i.e. hold your breath). When it is here, you can buy it. Till then, use what is available.

I am sure RED are working round the clock on the Scarlet, and I am not sure what more they could do, when there are so many things beyond their control.

 

[Jeremy_Sawatzky]

no hate to users of dslrs as video cameras but i cannot stand that whole trend. here is a picture camera with a secondary video function. and a crappy one at that. i understand not a whole lot of clients can tell the difference. but its like buying a car, jacking it up, putting a buffing wheel on the drive axle and polishing your sunglasses. lol thats a rather funny picture in my head. Im a stickler for quality.

wow im acting like a grumpy old man right now....

 

[rod bradley]

A gh1 hacked -- or even the GH2 as a holdover other choices, even less than the Nikon 7000. (And I'm guessing actually better and I'm a Nikon guy.) Then just enjoy grumping for six months or so until Scarlet comes along.

 

[Jeremy_Sawatzky]

yea at this point i cant grump along anymore. gotta get a camera now... but i duno what to do. also dslrs are out of the question. if its either the 12min recording limit or lack of xlr inputs. gotta have xlrs....

 

[Frank Glencairn]

Check out the DRAMA - 2/3 - records uncompressed 12bit RAW on cheap off-the-shelf HDD, beautiful cinematic look.

http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com...he-new-drama-hd-camera-finally-comes-to-life/

Frank

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I haven't read where you said what you need to use the camera for.

Or what your budget and immediate need is.

Since you are here and talking about RED, I'll assume that your work is vaguely cinema style.

Here is the thing about DSLR's- they are cheap and they deliver extremely good moving images for their price.

They force you to work in an "old fashioned" way.

You need follow focus with a 1st AC/focus puller

You need a "sound guy" who is making a full second system recording. A Zoom H4N is the cheap way, a Sound Devices 552 is the better way. Doing this XLR inputs are not a concern.

You need tons of camera accessories. Matte Box, on camera LCD's, rods... the whole deal.

Now here is the secret if your ambition is to buy a RED One MX, Scarlet or Epic S35 camera: Almost every penny you put into a DSLR system, aside from the camera itself, will be re-usable when you get a RED S35 camera.

And you'll put most of your money into accessories. A follow focus costs more than my camera.

Well, OK I have a Cinevate Durus which is just $1000 USD... which is 67% of the cost of my Canon 7D... but then iris rods and a baseplate add up to be near the price of the camera. If you buy an Arri, Chrosziel or O'Connor FF, they eclipse the cost of the 7D.

If you buy a lower end 1080p camera, like a Canon T2i its price is really negligible compared to the cost of accessories.

A DSLR's image sucks compared to a RED MX.

A DSLR's image is pretty good when compared to HD video cameras near its price. In some ways its much nicer than HD video cameras that cost 3-5 times as much.

The one big gotcha in DSLR motion imaging is moire. Once you learn to deal with moire (surprisingly often you can just scoot the camera a bit closer, just a few inches, to eliminate it) you are pretty good.

Take length has never been an issue. I don't think I've done a 12 minute take except in testing.

I do like to have both head and tail slate on longer takes because the camera's clock drifts a bit.

So, I'd be very happy buying into a DSLR. A Canon or a Nikon camera might be the ticket, as the lenses you might acquire to use now will work on Epic and Scarlet.

When the RED camera you want is available you can just sell your low end DSLR and put whatever you get towards your new acquisition.

Or... you might just enjoy having a still camera with afterthought video available when its run as your cinema camera ends.

In any case a DSLR can be a smart cost effective route to having a camera NOW and still be building towards a RED rig of some sort.

 

[Jeremy_Sawatzky]

thanks alex, but 12 min recording time is a no go. im recording guitar lessons at the moment. they run over an hour.

 

[Samual Murman]

While probably physically possible, I'm not sure the Scarlet, when it is here, will be the best tool for recording things like guitar lessons. Long render times, etc.

 

[Rick Burnett]

thanks alex, but 12 min recording time is a no go. im recording guitar lessons at the moment. they run over an hour.

The GH1 does not have a time limit if you have the non-EU version. I know kholi recorded over an hour and four minutes on one when they were released. GH2 I heard was due out in Nov.

While I use the 7D, if I was buying TODAY I'd get a GH1 if I could find one I could hack. If Nov/Dec was my time frame, and it is, I am going for the AF100 to hold me over till the S35 is released.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

thanks alex, but 12 min recording time is a no go. im recording guitar lessons at the moment. they run over an hour.

Jeremy, a GH2 with a Standard 4/3 adapter and a Olympus 14-54 f2.8~3.5 looks like a nice piece of kit.

Not pricey and efficient.

Scarlet has been delayed for so long that we can't be sure when it's going to come out, don't plan based on its supposed launch, I think everyone learned that already.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

thanks alex, but 12 min recording time is a no go. im recording guitar lessons at the moment. they run over an hour.

Well, then don't get a Canon. Others have recommended a Panasonic GH1, particularly the hacked version. I expect the GH2 will prove similarly interesting.

I haven't used that camera, but it seems very interesting. The main thing I don't like is the sensor size. It would be great for what you are doing... but I much prefer something closer to the actual S35 film frame... APS-C is closest, although Canon's APS-H is also interesting.

That isn't about you though.

As far as the AF100 goes... I really think its Panasonic's version of a hacked GH1/2 with XLR and a viewfinder. I am not so interested as others.

I really hope to see Canon deliver an XF series camera- all the same electronics as the XF300/XF305, but using the sensor from a 7D, and for close to the same price as the XF series. That would be a knockout win for Canon.

OK enough hoping. Back to YOUR problem.

What is the destination for your guitar videos and your other work?

 

[Rick Burnett]

Well, then don't get a Canon. Others have recommended a Panasonic GH1, particularly the hacked version. I expect the GH2 will prove similarly interesting.

I haven't used that camera, but it seems very interesting. The main thing I don't like is the sensor size. It would be great for what you are doing... but I much prefer something closer to the actual S35 film frame... APS-C is closest, although Canon's APS-H is also interesting.

That isn't about you though.

As far as the AF100 goes... I really think its Panasonic's version of a hacked GH1/2 with XLR and a viewfinder. I am not so interested as others.

I really hope to see Canon deliver an XF series camera- all the same electronics as the XF300/XF305, but using the sensor from a 7D, and for close to the same price as the XF series. That would be a knockout win for Canon.

OK enough hoping. Back to YOUR problem.

What is the destination for your guitar videos and your other work?

2 big differences

1. The sensor is NOT the same as the GH1, but sounds like the same as on the GH2.

2. The OLPF is actually designed properly.

Reports from multiple sources have said moire/aliasing is MUCH better and that the rolling shutter performance is much better.

Though I agree, I wish the sensor was a little better, although most people have the crop factor wrong. It is not 2x, it is 1.89x which is a little better (I did the math myself, in 16x9 mode they actually added pixels to the left and right side of the sensor to retain the diagonal distance.)

 

[Jeremy_Sawatzky]

I cant have a dslr not just because of the 12 min time limit but also because of the lack of a professional audio equipment, ie - xlr inputs. The guitar lessons are moving out on dvd and download, perferably hd for the download. With a scarlet though, we could be the first to enter the guitar lesson market with blueray disks. at least i think the first...

 

[PatrickW]

You could use a DSLR.
Just keep each segment of the lesson under 12 minutes and use an external audio recorder.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Why can't you use a secondary recorder and just bring the two together with something like pluraleyes (however you spell that, auto aligns audio and video with audio tracks)?

If I were micing a guitar practice, I'd be using more than 2 mikes anyways if I wanted it to sound good. I'd have one on you, one near the guitar, one away from the guitar.

Although I will say this, guitar strings generally bring out aliasing if a camera aliases.

(I play guitar as well)

 

[Michael Hastings]

I cant have a dslr not just because of the 12 min time limit but also because of the lack of a professional audio equipment, ie - xlr inputs. The guitar lessons are moving out on dvd and download, perferably hd for the download. With a scarlet though, we could be the first to enter the guitar lesson market with blueray disks. at least i think the first...

XLR adapter and hack a gh1. I'm a guitar player and actually buy guitar dvds every once in a while. Do you really think anybody cares much if it's on BluRay? You are just trying to learn - i'm pretty happy with youtubes most of the time for learning a song (sorry) - and even if they do they will certainly be able to live with GH1 level HD.

most people listen to .mp3s, so I would think recording through an XLR to mini stereo to digital on the GH1 would be "good enough" too. AFAIK scarlet doesn't have XLRs either (optional module).

The price of a GH1 and the stock 14-140 (about $1100) is phenomenal with very little loss when you want to resell it. And the 14-140 is the most video friendly lens on any dSLR type camera.

 

[Jeremy_Sawatzky]

thanks for all the opinions guys. Il definitly have to look into that plural eyes. I still very much shy away from the external recorders. We record 2 lines, one straight from the guitar and one from a lapel mike. having to sync audio after the fact is time consuming and weve built a studio thats designed to encourage a fast workflow. Im trying to speed it up as much as possible. Walk in, record, edit, burn. if we can pump out a lesson a day, we are rocking. audio syncing is another time consuming step. U are very right about the aliasing issues. That was a major thing i noticed with my sony handycam. dslrs wouldnt help much.

michael do u mean get an xlr adaptor to 3.5 mm audio jack and plug that into the gh1?

also ive found a hvx200 for 2500bux, hes also selling an fs100 for 200 more. That would be by far the easiest method for me. Or just record straight to desktop. what do u guys think of that price point. Should i just save 1000 more and get something newer>?

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

thanks for all the opinions guys. Il definitly have to look into that plural eyes. I still very much shy away from the external recorders.

It kind of breaks my heart to hear you say that, especially with such an audio oriented application.

There are very few cameras that can match the audio quality of even very cheap recorders. My $300 Zoom H4N, combined with good preamps like the sound devices MM-1, is better than the RED and every ENG camera I've used with the same settings. (i.e. 24 bit 96kHz) Its definitely feature limited- for our purposes the main missing feature is any type of timecode input. Another issue with that recorder is that it only records wav & mp3 files. Wav is fine quality wise, but I prefer PCM.

A real recorder, like any of the Sound Devices 7xxT series makes the Zoom look like the toy it is.

michael do u mean get an xlr adaptor to 3.5 mm audio jack and plug that into the gh1?

I expect he means getting a conversion device like the Juiced Link JL-DT454.

also ive found a hvx200 for 2500bux, hes also selling an fs100 for 200 more. That would be by far the easiest method for me. Or just record straight to desktop. what do u guys think of that price point. Should i just save 1000 more and get something newer>?

First off, I think you are on the wrong forum, you have an ENG/EFP problem, not a cinema problem.

Further, I'd probably advise you to stay away from RED products. They are really intended for the CINEMA professional.

Cinema cameras are different from ENG/EFP cameras and with good reason. They are both highly specialized and fit for their specific purpose. If you were trying to make movies I'd steer you away from ENG/EFP cameras for the same reasons I am presently steering you towards them.

An HVX200 seems like a good choice, but I'd suggest that you don't need a camera to tie you over, but rather a real ENG camera optimized for that task.

So, don't buy an old camera.

I'd point you at Sony's EX series of cameras. My preferred units are the PMW-F350 and the EX1R, in that order.

For your specific application though I would still deeply recommend using an external multitrack audio recorder. In order to keep your workflow fast, use a camera and recorder that can jam to external timecode. In your specific application I'd set the audio recorder as master and the camera as slave.

Syncing audio and video with synced timecode is trivially easy. You'll hardly notice.

I would also definitely follow the advice of multiple microphones.

I myself would prefer a short shotgun a medium distance (5 feet or so) from the guitar, a ribbon mic for the artists voice and an instrument mic. You should also reserve a channel or two for external accompaniment. (be that a recording or other musicians.) You may also want an dynamic omni mic to capture the room. So, I'd look for a mixer and recorder that can handle six channels of audio. My favorite is the Sound Devices 788T.

So, to reiterate, I recommend a PMW-F350 camera and a Sound Devices 788T for your application- and forget all these cinema cams that will make your life harder for very limited improvement in results for your application.

If saving money is a priority, then an EX1R is the ticket, but I recommend an external 24 bit audio recording- even a Zoom will do. (A cheap mixer with a cable splitter on its outputs will work fine for getting audio to your camera and the recorder- same audio source on both devices=VERY easy to sync.)

If you need improved video recording quality, then either of those cameras paired with an external video recorder, like AJA's KiPro and their new Ki Pro Mini, will work nicely.

If that's out of your budget... well, do what you can.