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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Da Vinci Resolve MAC (in London), first impressions...

J

Jonas Rejman

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diROOM just got our DaVinci Resolve after an epic journey across UK.
I worked with scratch, baselight and speedgrade, but have no experience on DaVinci, apart from seeing it at the roadshow.

Here are first impressions...

INSTALLATION:

System:
Mac 2009, 8-core, 3.0 Ghz, 16MB RAM, 3x2TB SOFTRAID 0
1. Slot, QUADRO FX 4800
2. Slot, RedRocket
3. Slot, GT120
4. Slot, Decklink HD extreme
Tangent Wave, Cinetal 10bit, HDMI 1.3 Optoma projector

The DaVinci DVD seems to be burned, not pressed so I copied it onto the drive before installing. Dongle attached to USB port.

No issues with installation. Redrocket came a bit earlier, newest build, newest firmware installed. Swap of fibre channel card, installation of softraid...

After reboot, Decklink firmware upgrade came up as well as cuda upgrades, no issues with execution.


FIRST LAUNCH & Project setup:

Nice and very well thought GUI, divided into "rooms", that you enter as you go along the grading process.

The initial project setup is very easy and the GUI really helps there. Framerate, resolution for work space, tape, project etc.

Media selection:
Drag and drop does not seem to be en vogue with daVinci, neither is "select all" via apple+a. One adds media from the browser into the media storage.
Unfortunately, this does not "drill down" directories, which is not the best thing for RED footage.

CONFORM:
We started very nasty and threw a 100minute EDL, shot on 5D at DaVinci, edited on FCP. The 3600 EDL does not seem to recognize the filenames in the comments, so you end up with a timeline, that has correct edits, but does this only on the first file it finds.
As a lot of projects are done on HDSLRs lately, that do not generate timecodes in the original files, and are edited on FCP, it would be helpful, if daVinci would understand FCP xmls.
If a script can conform a FCP timeline via XML and lua into RedCineX timeline flawlessly, so should davinci.

h.264 codecs seem to be heavy on any system. The project crashes FCP regularly and daVinci seems to struggle as well. We had about 15 crashes during the tests.
I really hope, that the EPIC is out soon, and we do not have to deal with this "formats" so much.

Next was a RED clip test. No issues here. Acceleration via RR, on cinetal 10bit duallink... sweet.

GRADING:
We did not have too much time here, more tests tomorrow, but again, the GUI makes for a very organized experience...

I just saw an update on the BM page, so there might be some bugfixes for the mentioned glitches...

... more tests after some hours of sleep...


Please post any questions or things you want me to try out.
We will be testing and grading a feature next week.
If you are in London, feel free to come by and have a look and a (after hours) hands-on.
This shall be fun.

jonas (at) diroom (dot) com
 
Hey Jonas,

Thank you very much for sharing experiences.

How much acceleration on RR? Just like working with REDCINE-X?
 
Jonas Rejman said:
Unfortunately, this does not "drill down" directories, which is not the best thing for RED footage.
Click to expand...

Resolve does allow the recursive directory search. Just right click on the topmost folder for red material and select "add folder and subfolders" and all of your red files in all subdirectories will be added to the media pool.
 
 
Hey Meryem,

You just made me realize that by upgrading my Red Giant package with $99 then I get this software included. Nice, thank you for the heads up.
 
Liam Hall said:
That looks a good product Meryem, better than the free Canon FCP plug-in (which also generates timecode).
Click to expand...

The only gotcha with Grinder is it does not deal with duplicate file names very well. So you may need to load it's batch input and then transcode one card at a time.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
what Matt said..buy this for $49 now, thank me later:

http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-grinder/

Pro Res and timecode...ooo la la.
Click to expand...

you should check out rarevision's, 5dtoRGB, it's still in beta, so batching isn't an option at the moment, but it produces the best transcode results i've ever seen from h.264 to pro res. the noise interpolation is a lot cleaner, and it fixes all the gamma shifts you find with QT. and gives you TC too, you just don't get the unique file naming, for now at least.
 
Tom.Wong said:
you should check out rarevision's, 5dtoRGB, it's still in beta, so batching isn't an option at the moment, but it produces the best transcode results i've ever seen from h.264 to pro res. the noise interpolation is a lot cleaner, and it fixes all the gamma shifts you find with QT. and gives you TC too, you just don't get the unique file naming, for now at least.
Click to expand...

I've tried this too, and have similar nice results. But without batch loading its really a non-started except for specific clips that are problematic.

I read a recent study of the product and the tester found that the gamma shift problem is only part-way solved. Quicktime to FCP is all good and matching. But FCP to Quicktime results in a gamma shift that can only be solved with a full media render. I haven't verified this myself, but the tester was pretty thorough.
 
Jonas,

Very keen to come have a look, I'm in and out of London this week, 20th C Fox viewing and Lipsync meeting for feature conform, but this is really interesting stuff. I understand your problems with DSLR it is a real pain, MB does help though.

Guys, it would be good to keep this thread pertinent to the Da Vinci usage for Red / red rocket and not wander off into DSLR backchat. I'm sure there are other forums for that.

Jonas please continue with your tests and report back your findings.


Mike Costelloe
 
Just got back from diROOM...

I upgraded DaVinci to the latest 7.0.1 version. The system performs another update of the blackmagic.


CONFORM:

I started to conform two projects. One is the mentioned 5D feature, edited in FCP, the other is a shortfilm shot on RED, edited in AVID.

I am new to DaVinci, but I could not conform either of those projects successfully. DaVinci does take EDL CMX 3600 and AAF files and it has certain options, e.g. to read the filenames from comments.
I tried every possible settings option in DaVinci, exported CMX 3600 EDL, AAF and also RED16 EDL, but could not get a working timeline.

The EDL's are are off in timecodes and filenames, the AAF is "unreadable" because it contains some functions DaVinci does not seem to understand.

I have conformed a lot of messed up projects with Baselight and Scratch, and it seems that DaVinci will need a very precise input and may be less forgiving in that regard.

I have a very crude workaround, on how to get a timeline for the feature, but I think, that when a 15 USD applescript can create a lua file and that can re-create a timeline in redcineX without problems from the same EDL that I was working on, I believe that DaVinci should do the same without even blinking.

If there is someone, who can give me a hint on the AVID->DaVinci conform of RED projects, I would appreciate it. The manual does not help much.

EDIT DETECTION

I tried to use the offline of the movie with scene detection mode to create a valid timeline in this fashion. The detection takes its time, and there is a threshold graph to set on how sensitive this should work. I find this function a bit un-intuitive as there is no timeline displayed, where one could visually check the edits. The sensitivity can be set globally only, so if one has fast cuts, there are a lot of "wrong" guesses.

In comparison to the pfcleaner scene detection, pfcleaner is clearly faster, more precise and allows much more control over the automatic process.

Now daVinci's feature might be good for short scenes, but as it is advertised for reels of scans, I wonder how efficient one can work with it.


H.264

I find the h.264 to ProRes conversions not as easy as one might think. There are still things, like gamma that can go wrong. In our case, we re-created the ProRes files to have absolute control over the image quality. I did some comparisons, and the ProRes felt wrongly setup.
But I guess working with the originals will remain a dream.

I look at the movie, and I soo wish it would have been shot on MX!!!
This HDSLR mania will be hopefully over soon.

Thanks for the 2 software tips, I will give them a testrun.


A bit of a let down today, as I did not even get to the fun stuff. That will be tomorrow, when our colorist will try to tear the system apart....
 
You need to read the manual a bit.
I was able to successfully conform multiple mixed Prores (transcoded from H264) and R3D timeline with CMX 3600 from FCP. Yes, it is a bit more work, than, say, Scratch, as you will get some conflicts, but it isn't a big deal. Working with EDL from Avid shouldn't be that much different. Some other grading packages have better ways of dealing with non standard EDLs, such as using for assembly tape name, file name, header file names etc. BM indicated, that they actively working on the solution. Meanwhile, it's pretty easy to fix EDL...
As far as scene detection, I found it very easy to use as well. Move the sensitivity bar up or down to decide which is the best level for the project. Then use "N" an "P" keys for next and previous event. If you want to get rid of the unnecessary cuts, push "-". You can do that, as system continues to perform the scene detection.
As I said, read the manual:-)
 
RTF? But...but ... I don't do manuals... ;-D

Jake, are you on the mac version of Resolve?

I did not manage to solve the mentioned problem and neither a FCP, nor an AVID EDL or AAF is working at the moment. I DID read the manual.
Can you please send me a part of your EDL, that has worked, so that I can see how it is structured?

I am giving here a "first impression" in a quite crude way as I think that a lot of people will not bother reading anything and just go and start using the software, whilst peaking into the manual as they go forward. Worked for me perfectly on the 3 other packages.

Considering that it is 2010 and a vast number of project is shot on files on RED and DSLR's, not supporting advanced EDL's or XML for that matter is quite a disappointment.
If I have a filename in the media pool and the same filename is either in the comment or in the first word in the line of the EDL, I SHOULD be able to conform...
If I cannot get a perfectly structured short-RED project (that conforms in baselight, scratch and redinceX) past the conform within two hours of launching the software, even when I am new to it, something is wrong.

Implementing XML support and RED16 EDL support ASAP is crucial in the moment.
 
mac pro 2008 8 core 2.8ghz

mac pro 2008 8 core 2.8ghz

Da vinci on a mac 2008?

I have a mac pro 2008 8 core 2.8ghz
16GB ram
Quadro fx 5600
connected to a JMR raid (1000mbs read and write)
Aja Kona 3

Will Da Vinci run on this system?

If so what changes I should make?

1. second graphic card? which?
2. red rocket (slot configuration?)
3. replace aja by black magic?

Thanks
 
Jonas Rejman said:
RTF? But...but ... I don't do manuals... ;-D

Jake, are you on the mac version of Resolve?

I did not manage to solve the mentioned problem and neither a FCP, nor an AVID EDL or AAF is working at the moment. I DID read the manual.
Can you please send me a part of your EDL, that has worked, so that I can see how it is structured?

I am giving here a "first impression" in a quite crude way as I think that a lot of people will not bother reading anything and just go and start using the software, whilst peaking into the manual as they go forward. Worked for me perfectly on the 3 other packages.

Considering that it is 2010 and a vast number of project is shot on files on RED and DSLR's, not supporting advanced EDL's or XML for that matter is quite a disappointment.
If I have a filename in the media pool and the same filename is either in the comment or in the first word in the line of the EDL, I SHOULD be able to conform...
If I cannot get a perfectly structured short-RED project (that conforms in baselight, scratch and redinceX) past the conform within two hours of launching the software, even when I am new to it, something is wrong.

Implementing XML support and RED16 EDL support ASAP is crucial in the moment.
Click to expand...
Yes, I had been beta testing Mac Resolve for at least a month and a half. Sorry, but not reading the manual is not a valid excuse for not knowing how to use the product. Resolve is a fully featured grading package with extensive editing capabilities. There is no reason, why you can't use a simple EDL to conform the project, that had been shot with mixture of different cameras. Give me your email and I will send you the EDL, that I had successfully used to conform in Resolve. As I said in my earlier post, at this time Resolve is not quite on par with Scratch in the conforming department, but with little care it is very usable. BTW, my test EDL contains standard 16 characters Red file names, so it's not a problem to use with Resolve.
Finally, IMHO Baselight is much trickier, when it comes to conforming. Can't imagine trying to dive into the Baselight without the manual:-)
P.S. How did you manage to conform in Redcine-X?
 
Well, there is a reason, why this does not work, which I would like to figure out.
And the manual does not help here, all the jokes about RTF aside.

Thanks for the EDL.

jonas (at) diroom (dot) com
 
Thanks for you input Jake.

Can you give us your overall opinion of the new software and your system configuration?

Thanks
 
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