Scarlet Costs: Let's be real

[Erwin Vanderhoydonks]

Still thinking/dreaming of the first announcement --> 3K for $3K
But I'm very happy with all the new features and other extra things...

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Well, technically, it is still under $3k. (Brain)

In fact, the prices haven't really changed much since the first announcements, despite a huge addition of features and a much better camera than the one talked about at NAB 08. According to the first announcements (end 2008?) 2/3" Brain was $2500 ($250 increase) and S35 was $7000 (same price). The kit was later announced as $3750, but the current Fixed offers much more for $4750.

 

[brian hanson]

Well, technically, it is still under $3k. (Brain)

In fact, the prices haven't really changed much since the first announcements, despite a huge addition of features and a much better camera than the one talked about at NAB 08. According to the first announcements (end 2008?) 2/3" Brain was $2500 ($250 increase) and S35 was $7000 (same price). The kit was later announced as $3750, but the current Fixed offers much more for $4750.

I think it is safe to assume that even the last quoted prices are not accurate. Production costs have risen and I imagine the cost of scarlet may reflect that.

 

[David Rasberry]

Finding a reliable manufacturer for Scarlet that will let them meet their price targets is the key.
Still, doing rough budget planning with what we do know is an entertaining and useful exercise. I think people should have a realistic idea of what a practical field package is going to cost.
My rough budget so far for a Scarlet 2/3" cinema model:

2/3" cinema brain 2750
PL mount 500
base I/O module 1750
module adapter 300
rear SSD module 1500
2x 64GB SSD 1900
battery module 1250
w/ 2 batteries
4 extra batteries 800?
Bomb EVF 3200
Aftermarket 5.6" LCD 800
Redmote 550
base plate 500
Redstation SSD 250
used 16mm lenses(so far) 3000
lens maintenance 3000
mattebox +filters 1600

total: $23,650

Incidentally this is about the same price that a Sony PMW350 package would run.

 

[Art Chong]

hmmm, I wonder what will need to be purchased, extra, for the Scarlet 8x fixed lens? LCD, CF module?

That's one of my biggest questions as well. How "ready to shoot" is the 2/3" fixed out of the box? The price list says $4750 for Brain/lens, side CF module, Redmote, 2.8" touch screen, redvolt, and travel charger... That actually sounds like a pretty good value for money... even though I prefer S35, I might be willing to settle for 2/3" if it saves TEN GRAND!

Having re-read that, I'm starting to wonder what you REALLY need to at least start shooting. RED so needs to come out with Cinema packages when(ever) this comes out. Also, they need really explain what each module does and what you really need... again, when(ever) this all drops.

Edit:

Actually, having re-read that AGAIN, If you subtract out module costs in the 2/3"fixed package, it starts to look like this:

Starting price for package: $4750
2.8" touch screen: -$900
REDmote: -$550
Side CF Module: -$500
REDVolt and charger: doesn't say, but let's call this $300 since battery module +2 batteries is $1250
What's left: $2500 for the brain/lens combo.

You're telling me that the 8x fixed 2/3" brain costs LESS than the 2/3" interchangeable with no lens?! (2/3" interchangeable costs 2750 according to the same list)

 

[Lee Saxon]

I'm starting with just Fixed / Side Handle / 5" LCD / Base Plate / 2 16GB cards

Certainly there's a limit to how much can be done with a setup like that, but I doubt I'll hit them any time soon, I'm a total amateur/hobbyist. Who is able to afford a 3K, RAW, cinema camera. GO RED!!

 

[Subhadip Sen]

I have done a bit of a calculation from Ted's indicated sweet-spot for 5K (80-100 MB/s). For 3K it comes to between 30 and 38 MB/s, even lower if Scarlet is 12-bit and not 16-bit like Epic (and lower still if you are intending to shoot 2.35:1). So, REDCODE 28 should be plenty for normal 24 fps work, and anything above REDCODE 42 is likely to be overkill unless you are shooting frantic multi-object motion and detailed 120 fps. In view of this assumption, Fixed + 32GB Sandisk Extreme seems like an excellent place to start for $4900. You can get shooting near-lossless 24fps / 3K RAW for $5k. Impressive! If you have an EX1-like camera, then you are likely going to inherit all the accessories and rigs.

 

[Steve Kahn]

battery module 1250
w/ 2 batteries
4 extra batteries 800?

Naive question:

I really love the (idea of the) Scarlet. The proposed S35 sounds brilliant to me and if it were to be available by the end of the year I'd really consider it and scrape the money together to buy it...

But... battery module $1250??? I just don't understand some of these costs which all add up in the end. What exactly do you get for example in a $1250 battery module?

 

[Stephen Matthews]

aside from the multiple battery inputs and rollover battery time from one to another not sure but that alone helps a lot. though I believe this will not be the only option as the side handle will take batteries, I assume you will be able to buy them separately and a travel battery charger and power cord, but this is information that will be finalized closer to the release dates so basing any decisions around the info we have now is not a good idea unless it's very rough (just my opinion).

 

[Jaime Vallés]

But... battery module $1250??? I just don't understand some of these costs which all add up in the end. What exactly do you get for example in a $1250 battery module?

For $950 you can get the side handle with a built-in battery slot. Because you can control the whole camera with the side handle, you not only save $300 from not buying the Battery Module, but you also don't need to buy the REDmote, saving you another $500, and you don't need the Module Adapter, saving another $300. That's $1100 cheaper right there.

Of course, with the side handle you have to turn the camera off to swap batteries, but that's a compromise I'm willing to live with.

 

[rod bradley]

Steve, if you are thinking the proposed S35 Scarlet might be ready by the end of the year, my guess is you do not have to scrape up any money. The S35 Scarlet follows Epic (just when is a matter of speculation ) and Epic will need to be solid and in major production before the S35 Scarlet will come along.

What might (a big might) possibly be ready is the fixed Scarlet -- 2/3" 8x zoom 3K setup.

The term Scarlet covers numerous form-factors, and alas gets applied sometimes a bit loosely on the boards like it's one camera named Scarlet -- and produces a lot of rumors/confusions, etc.

 

[Art Chong]

Steve, if you are thinking the proposed S35 Scarlet might be ready by the end of the year, my guess is you do not have to scrape up any money. The S35 Scarlet follows Epic (just when is a matter of speculation ) and Epic will need to be solid and in major production before the S35 Scarlet will come along.

What might (a big might) possibly be ready is the fixed Scarlet -- 2/3" 8x zoom 3K setup.

The term Scarlet covers numerous form-factors, and alas gets applied sometimes a bit loosely on the boards like it's one camera named Scarlet -- and produces a lot of rumors/confusions, etc.

Excellent points. I do believe that even though it's been said recently that "Scarlet" is still slated for end of 2010 the statement is referring specifically to 2/3" fixed. (my apologies for not having a link, but I think it was mentioned along with the "bug squashed" announcement)

Still, depending on the final lens spec, that might be extremely attractive. Certainly much more so than 2/3" interchangeable to me. Hey, you can even put a DOF adapter on it, if you want shallow DOF! Wouldn't that be the most ridiculous thing ever?

 

[David Rasberry]

Naive question:

I really love the (idea of the) Scarlet. The proposed S35 sounds brilliant to me and if it were to be available by the end of the year I'd really consider it and scrape the money together to buy it...

But... battery module $1250??? I just don't understand some of these costs which all add up in the end. What exactly do you get for example in a $1250 battery module?

Battery module holds 4 hot swappable standard batteries or two XL batteries. Don't know if a charger is included or not. How does this compare with some of the pro grade aftermarket systems? Big $400 batteries are not uncommon.
The side handle holds one small battery, good for about 40 minutes apparently. These cameras are power hogs.
None of this stuff is set in stone yet, except for the Bomb EVF which is shipping.

 

[David Rasberry]

For $950 you can get the side handle with a built-in battery slot. Because you can control the whole camera with the side handle, you not only save $300 from not buying the Battery Module, but you also don't need to buy the REDmote, saving you another $500, and you don't need the Module Adapter, saving another $300. That's $1100 cheaper right there.

Of course, with the side handle you have to turn the camera off to swap batteries, but that's a compromise I'm willing to live with.

I really want more of a balanced shoulder rig, perhaps with the not yet priced Gunner mount with NATO rail, rather than a DSLR type configuration.
For hand held motion shooting I don't like cameras that have to be held in front of the body, especially when they will probably weigh in at 10-12 lbs all up. May change my mind though depending on what final prices and package discounts look like and where my funds are at the time.