Unfortunate trend with 4K projectors?

[Robert Null]

I was excited to learn that my local movie theater, a regional chain, would be converting all of their auditoriums to Sony 4K projectors. They began late last year for Avatar and finished this spring. I saw Robin Hood there (4K DCP) and indeed it looked fantastic, smooth but very detailed. I thought that this was the best way to see a movie, 4K master and 4K projection, and it was worth it to me to pay to see one this way.

However, the last few times I have been there I looked at the projection room and saw that they had left the RealD 3-D adapter lens on the projector even for 2-D movies, including Inception. For those that don’t know, the RealD 3-D adapter lens takes 2 2K images displayed simultaneously one on top of the other and merges them together for projection. Even for these 2-D movies there are two images being projected onto the screen. I can only assume that the people running the theater are being lazy by not wanting to dismount and remount the adapter as needed for 2-D and 3-D movies. This means that all movies being projected by the 3-D capable projectors, in all of the large auditoriums of course, are displaying 2K images regardless if the DCP is 2K or 4K. What a bummer, especially now that 4K DCPs are becoming more common. I would think that saying they use “Sony 4K projectors” is a bit misleading if they are only going to project 2K images with them! :angry:

 

[Martin Weiss]

Did you speak to the manager?

Whenever I'm unhappy with the projection, I talk to either the manager or the projectionist. It is important for them to get feedback to know that the audience does indeed care.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Did you speak to the manager?

Whenever I'm unhappy with the projection, I talk to either the manager or the projectionist. It is important for them to get feedback to know that the audience does indeed care.

Seconded!

I will also say that I've seen immediate results from my complaints. Once I was watching a show with too much weave to be acceptable, so I complained. It was fixed by the next reel.

Theater owners and managers know they are competing with increasingly high quality home theaters, and if you treat them with respect you do get service.

If you are really nice, you might get a lesson or a tour that can teach you a lot.

 

[Cail Young]

I looked at the projection room and saw that they had left the RealD 3-D adapter lens on the projector even for 2-D movies, including Inception. For those that don’t know, the RealD 3-D adapter lens takes 2 2K images displayed simultaneously one on top of the other and merges them together for projection.

1) Are you certain you weren't looking at a Z screen and not the dual lens device?

2) The dual lens device is rather complicated to attach and remove as it sits much further in toward the panel than a standard lens would; which makes swaps by untrained projectionists unlikely.

 

[Zaphod]

All the studio approved playout systems are 2K anyway.

 

[Stuart English]

2K

2K

Explain what you mean by that please?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I was excited to learn that my local movie theater, a regional chain, would be converting all of their auditoriums to Sony 4K projectors. They began late last year for Avatar and finished this spring. I saw Robin Hood there (4K DCP) and indeed it looked fantastic, smooth but very detailed. I thought that this was the best way to see a movie, 4K master and 4K projection, and it was worth it to me to pay to see one this way.

However, the last few times I have been there I looked at the projection room and saw that they had left the RealD 3-D adapter lens on the projector even for 2-D movies, including Inception. For those that don’t know, the RealD 3-D adapter lens takes 2 2K images displayed simultaneously one on top of the other and merges them together for projection. Even for these 2-D movies there are two images being projected onto the screen. I can only assume that the people running the theater are being lazy by not wanting to dismount and remount the adapter as needed for 2-D and 3-D movies. This means that all movies being projected by the 3-D capable projectors, in all of the large auditoriums of course, are displaying 2K images regardless if the DCP is 2K or 4K. What a bummer, especially now that 4K DCPs are becoming more common. I would think that saying they use “Sony 4K projectors” is a bit misleading if they are only going to project 2K images with them! :angry:

Funny thing is that I actually have such a big mouth, that I would never stand for this, I would literally do it my self..done that before actually haha.

Did you speak to the manager?

Whenever I'm unhappy with the projection, I talk to either the manager or the projectionist. It is important for them to get feedback to know that the audience does indeed care.

At the very list, yes do follow Martin's suggestion, very aggressively, if you have not done that yet, respectfully off course

All the studio approved playout systems are 2K anyway.

Sorry, but they are not, they are 2k and 4k.

 

[Joe Taylor]

Consider yourself lucky, Robert, that if you're able to get that sort of information directly from the theatre. Here in Las Vegas I'm almost afraid to ask if a film is being projected in 4K because I know the answer will just annoy me to the point of spoiling the movie experience. They'll give me a blank look and lie or run and hide under a pile of coats. It's a rare theatre that has a professional projectionist that knows their craft-- especially in this age of DLP. Most think it's almost foolproof with a push of a button, but your story about them not removing lens' for 3D when they clearly should is just another reason why I'm loosing all hope.

 

[Robert Null]

I'll ask about it next time I go there. I don't see how the image can be 4K since two images are being projected simultaneously, which in the Sony's case is made up of two 2K images, one on top of the other, for certain at least with 3-D projection. I would also be concerned about proper alignment of the two projected images, something that would not be an issue without the REAL-D adapter in place.

The digital IMAX projection setup uses two projectors for 2-D as well as 3-D, but they have a camera pointed at the screen that automatically ensures proper alignment, brightness uniformity, etc.

 

[Matthew Bennett]

Seconded!

I will also say that I've seen immediate results from my complaints. Once I was watching a show with too much weave to be acceptable, so I complained. It was fixed by the next reel.

Theater owners and managers know they are competing with increasingly high quality home theaters, and if you treat them with respect you do get service.

If you are really nice, you might get a lesson or a tour that can teach you a lot.

You complained about weave? Wow, that's my favorite part of a theatre movie - seeing the image wiggle around. That and print dirt. Love it, the way the future is headed we may not see those lovely analog artifacts for long...

 

[Zaphod]

Explain what you mean by that please?

I'll have to admit I'm not an expert on this, but earlier this year a buddy of mine who owns a cinema got quotes on updating his projectors for digital projection.

He said that it was easy to get a 4K projector, however the distributors of the digital files for features required the playback system to be from a list of approved systems (to do with rights management etc.). There were no approved systems that were 4K, only 2K.

So currently if you wanted to show commercial feature films, it would be from 2K.

 

[M Most]

I'll have to admit I'm not an expert on this, but earlier this year a buddy of mine who owns a cinema got quotes on updating his projectors for digital projection.

He said that it was easy to get a 4K projector, however the distributors of the digital files for features required the playback system to be from a list of approved systems (to do with rights management etc.). There were no approved systems that were 4K, only 2K.

So currently if you wanted to show commercial feature films, it would be from 2K.

This is not the case. The Sony 4K projector (the only commercially viable 4K cinema projector at this point in time) is fully DCI compliant and is currently in use in numerous installations in the US and elsewhere. If your friend owns a one off theater, and is not part of a chain, it is possible that his supplier is specifically a Barco, NEC, or Christie dealer and was attempting to steer him to one of those units, which are all currently 2K only. But the statement that there is no compliant 4K cinema projector available is just not true.

 

[Stuart English]

4K projection

4K projection

Zaphod, I agree with what Mike just posted, your friend has been misinformed.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Soooo, anyone know how many 4K DCPs have been created, distributed and displayed using 4K DCI servers and 4K projectors?

Cheers - #19

 

[M Most]

Soooo, anyone know how many 4K DCPs have been created, distributed and displayed using 4K DCI servers and 4K projectors?

Cheers - #19

The short answer is: not many.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

The short answer is: not many.

I knew that :cornut:.

Thought you might have an educated guesstimate. AFAIK less than 10 ever, but you run in higher circles than I...

Cheers - #19

 

[M Most]

I knew that :cornut:.

Thought you might have an educated guesstimate. AFAIK less than 10 ever, but you run in higher circles than I...

Cheers - #19

That sounds about right.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Norway is now leaning towards 4k projectors after initially going 2k and actually the 2k's have been replaced in some theatres, while AFAIK all new will be 4k.

If there become viable 4k postroutes (as I have mentioned a couple of times, our budgets are small-ish here, even with the oil...) it will be fun to see what that will mean for production.

 

[Jason Murphy]

I knew that :cornut:.

Thought you might have an educated guesstimate. AFAIK less than 10 ever, but you run in higher circles than I...

Cheers - #19

Out of curiosity, anyone know any specific films for sure which had a 4K DCP rollout?

I can't think of a single one off the top of my head. Except maybe that Harry Potter screening in Japan from a few years back.

In theory, Social Network will have one, but I can't for the life of me figure out which theaters in NYC are actually equipped to show it properly. The Landmark has a 4K projector, but they're not likely to be running the movie.

 

[M Most]

Out of curiosity, anyone know any specific films for sure which had a 4K DCP rollout?

Hancock comes to mind. I can't specifically recall others off hand, but Sony in particular has been somewhat vocal about doing more of them.