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Scarlet still #1

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Ajit_AP

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I'll try not sounding like a fanboy but here goes...

IBC 2010 has been interesting. Sony and Panasonic are working hard to catch up with Canon and Red. I like the form factor of these new contenders but at the end of the day I still think Scarlet is way ahead of the game.

Autofocus: This is a big deal with documentary/reality/run' gun narrative work. Recently, Red announced that newer/popular existing lenses from Nikon and Canon can not only be mounted but can also use the touchscreen autofocus features built into Scarlet. None of these other companies even mention this or think it is important. Ultimately, they want you to start buying their lenses, they will not work hard on making their competitor lenses work. Red to some degrees has to and does so.

Modularity: Sometimes this is a curse but I like the idea of working with one tool everyday that can go either big or minimal. I also like the idea that if I wanted to rent an Epic, I will have accessories that can work with that system. Look at the other cameras, will the accessories of the AF100 work with the higher end Panasonic cameras?

Design: I don't necessarily care on how it looks but on how well it functions in hand. I think Scarlet will ultimately be a more of pain to handle than the competitors. I've never seen a shooting Red not rigged with wires and whatnot. It's like looking underneath your computer desk, picking up all the wires and deciding to shoot with it (I kid). The price one pays for modularity!

Buyer's Remorse: It seems like everyday the Red team puts up an update for the Red :) That is ultimately a good thing. You don't have to sign an online petition. Your favorite DSLR personality doesn't have make a passionate pitch on adding some missing feature. The Red team have been great on improving the cameras they have already sold. This is what makes me ultimately want to buy a Scarlet instead of renting it.

Again, all of this is like talking about aliens. Do they exist? Have they landed? When will they take over? Will we be friends? I'll just have to wait for the Scarlet ship to land before truly knowing.
 
Ajit_AP said:
Sony and Panasonic are working hard to catch up with Canon and Red. I like the form factor of these new contenders but at the end of the day I still think Scarlet is way ahead of the game.
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Weird. Scarlet wasn't "in" the game last time I checked the RED store.

Ajit_AP said:
Autofocus: This is a big deal with documentary/reality/run' gun narrative work. Recently, Red announced that newer/popular existing lenses from Nikon and Canon can not only be mounted but can also use the touchscreen autofocus features built into Scarlet. None of these other companies even mention this or think it is important. Ultimately, they want you to start buying their lenses, they will not work hard on making their competitor lenses work. Red to some degrees has to and does so.
Click to expand...

Why are you shooting auto focus with a digital cinema RAW camera? What on earth are you going to do with 3K RAW footage that was shot using auto focus? And as cool as that feature of touch screen focus sounds. What application does it actually have?

Ajit_AP said:
Look at the other cameras, will the accessories of the AF100 work with the higher end Panasonic cameras?
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Probably, yes. Other cameras are basically brains with most of the accessories built in already. Anyone could get accessories that will work with other cameras, even other brands.
 
Ajit_AP said:
Again, all of this is like talking about aliens. Do they exist? Have they landed? When will they take over? Will we be friends?
Click to expand...

i love that quote...genius!

describes everyone on this forums experience thus far with epic and scarlett...very funny indeed.
 
The original post is about new stuff at IBC. Apparently nothing new showed up with an impending release date in a few months to a year that is likely to be close to Scarlet in capabilities and features.
 
dino g said:
i love that quote...genius!

describes everyone on this forums experience thus far with epic and scarlett...very funny indeed.
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Last week both the aliens were on the stage right next to you :)
 
I should clarify. When I say Scarlet is still #1, I didn't intend to say that it was here and that nothing can or could beat it. I mean very simply, among the new crop of cameras, it is #1 on my list.

In regards to Autofocus and 3k raw comment. I don't know what one has to do with the other. No matter your size of the picture, you want your subjects in focus. If anything, the higher the resolution, the easier it is to notice when something is out of focus. In the narrative world, autofocus is not necessary though I think it can help in certain scenarios. But in docs and reality tv, you will need autofocus at some point. I laugh at Docu DP's who say they never use autofocus. It is a friggin' tool, when you need it, use it. It's not sitting there spitting at your camera skills.
 
Ajit_AP said:
Again, all of this is like talking about aliens. Do they exist? Have they landed? When will they take over? Will we be friends? I'll just have to wait for the Scarlet ship to land before truly knowing.
Click to expand...

Are these the questions for RED?
 
Carl Weston said:
As far as I know the scarlet 2/3 or s35 doesn't actually exist. does it?...The AF100 will be out in December..I hope the scarlet exist and is shipping by that time.
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Scarlet will also be out in December. Remember Jim's last posting on the topic. He said "THIS YEAR", which I assume to mean December, but it could come faster.
 
'This Year' of course, pending a delay which we've been told to expect. Maybe we should just leave it by saying the camera will be out on a date you can measure on a calendar, when it's ready to ship. That would be more easy to stick to.

Noah
 
People are taking Jim's reply out of context.

He never said "the camera will be out this year"

Someone asked him "Is there any chance that Scarlet will come out this year?" and he said "Yes".

Both statements carry different weights to them.
 
Plus, either statement is just an estimated feeling based on where things stood at the time. Back in February, Jim was going to be suicidal if the cameras weren't out by summer. Obviously, stuff has happened since then that pushed everything back (and, presumably, Jim is not currently suicidal even though they're going to miss that summer deadline). Even if Jim had said "It's a done deal. It's going to be out by the end of the year no matter what." it's still not a done deal until they're loading the cameras on the FedEx truck on the way to buyers.

Reading tea leaves just leads to disappointment.
 
Thomas Church said:
People are taking Jim's reply out of context.

He never said "the camera will be out this year"

Someone asked him "Is there any chance that Scarlet will come out this year?" and he said "Yes".

Both statements carry different weights to them.
Click to expand...

I wish you wouldn't misquote without a source. It is very misleading.

Here's what Jim actually responded "Yes" to:

"so do you think that the scarlett will be available by the end of the year?"
and
"i know it would just be counterproductive to set a date, but if things go as planned will scarlet be out before the years end?"

Sounds a lot more like "Is there any chance?".

Source: http://scarletuser.com/showthread.php?t=4673, http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47139

But, obviously, there are a lot of variables here. It could slip to early 2011 quite easily.
 
Time

Time

The scarlet still looks to be the best or one of the best cameras in its class. Its just not leaps and bounds ahead of the rest anymore, one of the downsides of knowing about a product through its entire development cycle.
 
Chris Gold said:
The scarlet still looks to be the best or one of the best cameras in its class. Its just not leaps and bounds ahead of the rest anymore, one of the downsides of knowing about a product through its entire development cycle.
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gonna disagree there. shooting raw is a massive improvement, let alone 3k at 120fps, modularity, form factor etc. Nothing exists(including the scarlet) that delivers even close to half of scarlet's specs for anywhere near the last quoted price.
 
brian hanson said:
gonna disagree there. shooting raw is a massive improvement, let alone 3k at 120fps, modularity, form factor etc. Nothing exists(including the scarlet) that delivers even close to half of scarlet's specs for anywhere near the last quoted price.
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I agree that nothing comes close to the scarlet's strengths... but there are cameras that do some things better/differently. The AF100 will have a bigger sensor, for example. You can also get better color space out of a full raster 3 chip camera then a 3k bayer (providing it isn't 4:2:0). Keep in mind that full raster 3 chip HD cameras essentially have 3 2K chips in them, so they will compare to the Scarlet in overall resolution, less luma resolution & more color resolution. Though the video in the Scarlet will surely be better processed since it shoots raw and processes on the computer.

Of course, there are no comparably priced 3 chip 2/3" cameras, the cheaper ones all have smaller sensors (EX-1R is at least 1/2"), and the AF100 is using what is essentially a tweaked DSLR sensor, so I think the jury is still out on whether it will perform as well as everyone hopes it will.

So.... as I said, I still think the Scarlet is poised to be the best all around, but since it was first announced a number of more affordable full raster 3-chip cameras have come out (EX-1R, XF-300, HPX-370 [The HVX-200, for example, is not full raster as its sensors are actually about 960x540]) as well as the AF-100 (A 4/3" Bayer sensor), so yes I think there are cameras priced in the same range as the scarlet that do compete spec wise.
 
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Stephen Matthews said:
The 4:2:0 colour space on scarlet is misinformation it's 444(I think...), as well as the 3*2k chips in a 3ccd camera it's a 1080p camera not a 3k camera. Now I could be wrong on some of these points or a little off though Graeme did tell me that scarlet was not 4:2:0 (now I will not say he said it was 444 as I can not fully remember his answer as it was not as clear cut is the colour space is....). Lets just say some people (not you) have been spreading misinformation about scarlet and it's very unbecoming.

edit: not to say the af100 doesn't have it's strengths I just think colour space (and if you were saying resolution?) aren't some of them, but once again I could be wrong.
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I didn't interpret Chris Gold's post as saying Scarlet was 4:2:0 - and certainly it is not. Technically, since it is shooting RAW, I don't think it actually has a "color space" until you process it into some other form. And, of course, since all the sensor data is there, that color space can easily be 4:4:4, such as in ProRes444, etc. But he does suggest that you can get better color space with the 3-CCD sensor, which I believe is NOT true, per my comment above, i.e. all the sensor data is available and 4:4:4 is quite readily available.
 
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