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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#21...

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Today is the 6th day since we found out about the magic HDR.

Hit us with something nice because we still know nothing:)
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
This would do little to nothing though for something like tail lights in a city.

It would work fine for the sky but not well for anything that changes such as tail lights, fire, explosions, moving clouds (clouds move surprisingly fast even in short takes).
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Good point, but the samples could be bracketed per photosite, per channel and also increased temporally to correct for these scenarios. Besides, since we're just speculating, no theory can really be discredited wholly. We haven't followed through on any of these notions and have zero feedback for conclusions. It is fun to speculate. And there's always a way around an obstacle.
 
Jeff Coatney said:
It is fun to speculate. And there's always a way around an obstacle.
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Okay.. here is my speculation for five stop HDR.
I don't think the frames need be taken in linear time, rather once the 1/48 is captured, others can be subsampled from it. The key is setting the aperture to +2 stops overexposed, at 1/48 say. In addition to that frame, sub-sampled frames are bracketed down in increments of one stop (1/96, 1/200 ('the middle' exposure), 1/400, 1/800). Kind of like taking snapshots within a snapshot. The series is saved to RAM, then blended, then recorded. These five frames are within the 5k overcrank processing capabilities of the camera. Variable HDR would use various shutter speeds, half or third stop increments.
 
Jeff Coatney said:
since we're just speculating, no theory can really be discredited wholly. We haven't followed through on any of these notions and have zero feedback for conclusions. It is fun to speculate.
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Except that Jim and co. have confirmed that it's not how they're doing it. :D Variations on that theme have been postulated in every possible incarnation and every single time Jim has said that it's not how they're doing it.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Except that Jim and co. have confirmed that it's not how they're doing it. :D Variations on that theme have been postulated in every possible incarnation and every single time Jim has said that it's not how they're doing it.
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Exactly. I think two of the safest speculations could be that they are reading some lines with lower gain than others -- sacrificing resolution. Or that they are using two different analogue gain pathways, like Alexa.
 
If you could somehow nd control each different photosite then you would get true HDR
 
The concept is awesome and I can't wait to see the end result. Really hoping this shows up in Scarlet.
 
I was curious about just how many stops are there, and found this excellent page:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/dynamic-range.htm

The human eye can see 24 stops overall and about 14 simultaneously. The page also intimates (the way I read it anyway) that a specific contrast ratio might be more 'illuminating' when speaking of a digital sensor (e.g., 1024:1 instead of 10 stops). If that holds, then 21 stops would be a contrast ratio of 2,097,152:1. Wow!

Chris
 
Prodding

Prodding

Michael Stanmore said:
Never. they are just going to keep adding features and telling us how good they are.

So far they're really really cool. I'm trying to still wait.
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I must say, the rampant speculation is exhausting, and I'd love to start seeing cold hard facts (example footage beyond barely moving lizards).

I'm starting to wonder if I should continue to have these Red Scarlet S35's in my production company's budget, since there is no trustworthy projected release.

Please think of this less as being critical, and more of a frustrated prod.
 
I bought 2 7Ds. Shoot now. RED is coming. I have FULL FAITH, but what if a bus hits me tomorrow.
Get out there and shoot!!!
 
William A. Beatty-Tinsay said:
I was just about to buy the 7D until I found out #21 was HDR. I cant wait!
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If you need to shoot now, make friends with someone who owns an R1, or buy one used. Unless you need to shoot every single day for a month I bet that you can rent a ready to shoot R1 kit for the duration of any small scale production for less (purchase cost + time wasted trying to get useable footage) than a properly kitted out HDSLR. And if you rent from a friend, chances are they'll either give you a really good deal, or return the rental favor later when you buy a scarlet or epic.

Buying a current generation HDSLR camera right now is like buying a swaybacked horse - sure you can ride it into town, but for how long?
 
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If this mode is on the scarlet, I will literally crap myself.... (although I think I will do that anyway when I get my hands on one).
 
Do NOT buy a 7d with the scarlet around the corner!

Do NOT buy a 7d with the scarlet around the corner!

Dan Kanes said:
If you need to shoot now, make friends with someone who owns an R1, or buy one used. Unless you need to shoot every single day for a month I bet that you can rent a ready to shoot R1 kit for the duration of any small scale production for less (purchase cost + time wasted trying to get useable footage) than a properly kitted out HDSLR. And if you rent from a friend, chances are they'll either give you a really good deal, or return the rental favor later when you buy a scarlet or epic.

Buying a current generation HDSLR camera right now is like buying a swaybacked horse - sure you can ride it into town, but for how long?
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You are completely correct. Shooting on the 7d or even the 5d mII is a pain in the ass and really isn't practical because the heavy compression and annoying moire... Besides by the time you buy a proper rig (which in my opinion is a necessity) you have spent more than it would have cost to get a scarlet.
 
Ryan Sparks said:
You are completely correct. Shooting on the 7d or even the 5d mII is a pain in the ass and really isn't practical because the heavy compression and annoying moire... Besides by the time you buy a proper rig (which in my opinion is a necessity) you have spent more than it would have cost to get a scarlet.
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What if you want the best stills camera in the world that also happens to shoot video? Like it or not, the dSLR cameras are shipping, they are in stores, and you can buy them and start shooting today. Even after Epic ships, and after Scarlet ships, it will be a long time before the demand is supplied. I'm guessing demand on scarlet wont be met until late 2011. That's because they are going to sell tens of thousands of them. At least 6 from me!!!!:biggrin:
 
Ryan Sparks said:
You are completely correct. Shooting on the 7d or even the 5d mII is a pain in the ass and really isn't practical because the heavy compression and annoying moire... Besides by the time you buy a proper rig (which in my opinion is a necessity) you have spent more than it would have cost to get a scarlet.
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Its been said before, 5Dm2 is shipping and has been for years, in the thousands (I ignore the 7D cause the 5D has a better video image IMHO). They are available at a reasonable price. If you're doing full-on narative shooting (like House), or commercials, add 2x - 3x to the camera cost to get a workable system with a couple of lenses. For $10k you can get a really nice movie making machine put together. And many of the parts can be moved to an Epic or Scarlet when that becomes an option. You can do this now. I couldn't buy a R1 when it came out due to an inverse relationship between my desire to own one and the direction my stock portfolio was heading. So I'm waiting for Epic now, and I'm at the end of a long line (what me, envious?). And I'm shooting on the best cameras clients will agree to, and sometime they pay me to shoot 5Dm2 (which I own) and pay quite well. So I'm camera whore, no loyalty I guess. Besides to me its 80% lighting, and framing, and camera motion, and running a great crew, yadda yadda. Even for the stuff I shoot that is going up on the big screen, if I know the tool and its strengths/weaknesses really well, it can look good. Camera capability is the icing...tasty icing to be sure.

Scarlet is an awesome promise. But not such a compelling promise that I'd rather sit at home and click "refresh" on my reduser.net browser hoping that today is the day they announce it. (Ok so sometimes I do that)

Besides if you work enough with the 5D now, your follow-focusing skills will be so well honed, that when Scarlet does come (or in my case Epic) it will be like being on vacation. Pass me another MaiTai honey, I've got an 18" depth of field!

OK, going back to my cave now...
 
Paul Nordin said:
if I know the tool and its strengths/weaknesses really well, it can look good.
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This is pretty much all anyone should live by in my opinion. I can't wait to get an Epic, in fact I might have to buy a red one at this rate. But until I do, I can guarantee that my clients will love my work with the 5D (and even 7D). It's already making me more money than any other camera I've ever owned. Most people think the 5D footage is RED footage until I correct them. You just have to know how to work around its shortcomings.

Paul, loved your post.
-Ryan
 
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