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Red to Color to 35mm settings

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King Cheung

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Dear All,

I filmed my short film by Red 1 with 4K and 16:9 setting, and now I am using FCP Color to grade the color for final 35mm output.

In my area of the world, from R1 outputting to 35 is a mess. So many big feature films in here are screwed up and need to postpone the release date. I badly need advices from people who has experience from the other parts of the world.

First of all, I am using Color for grading, so what kind of settings should I set for Color, like color space and gamma?

Say gamut. Should I use 709, D Cinema or something else, as the output is actually none of them?

We will have one minute test. Any suggestion that we must test?

Thanks a lot in advance.

King
 
Talk to the post house that's handling the film out for you, and ask them what they need. Unless you do the corrections under the same LUT and monitor conditions optimized by the film out facility, you will undoubtedly run into some unexpected surprises when you see the final print.

Even if you have color-corrected the picture from start to finish, it may still need some touch ups here and there in order to fit the color space used by the film recorder. Most facilities I know are using Northlight's LUTs, but some use custom LUTs or have their own systems, so all bets are off in this area.
 
Marc, thank you very much for your reply.

I am using Panasonic LH2550 for color correction, but you are right that I should check if the post house is using the same model monitor.

Let me sum up what I need to check based on your suggestion. First, I need to check what monitor the post house is using. Then I need to know two LUT information: one is the monitor, and another their film recorder.

But what is the relationship between LUT and color space? In my Panasonic LH2550 monitor for color space, we choose ITU-709. It is because it is closer to DVD output. As we will do the film output, should we change it to WIDE3 (D-Cinema mode). Of course, then I need to make sure the post house is using the same color space mode. Am I correct?

About Northlight's LUT, is it possible that I can adjust or guess based on Panny LH2550?

Thanks a lot in advance.

Marc Wielage said:
Talk to the post house that's handling the film out for you, and ask them what they need. Unless you do the corrections under the same LUT and monitor conditions optimized by the film out facility, you will undoubtedly run into some unexpected surprises when you see the final print.

Even if you have color-corrected the picture from start to finish, it may still need some touch ups here and there in order to fit the color space used by the film recorder. Most facilities I know are using Northlight's LUTs, but some use custom LUTs or have their own systems, so all bets are off in this area.
Click to expand...
 
Hi King, you really need to talk with your post house facility. You need to know wich color space the film recorder uses, so you can have a LUT for it.
The way i would do it if possible:
Color space : Redcolor
Gamma Space: Redlog (it will look like milky but you will have more dynamic range to work with)
The test, try it to make it two 30 seconds tests. The first one you check the color space and gamma options for color grading and if your lut and monioring is working..try to take your computer setup to the projection. The second one is when you already have your workflow locked and before print you just want to check it. Choose diferent scenes.. like interior, exterior, close ups, natural light,artificial light, logos and credits...
I don´t know your post house and your workflow but look if they have this stock for DI and you can use it http://business.fujifilm.co.uk/motion/eternardi.html

About LUT and color space relation is that your LUT is based on your color space. You have a REC709 or Log you need to have or create a LUT for this color space.
 
I tried Redlog. It is very interesting. It looks milky, but after I adjust the midtone and shadow, it looks more dynamic! Actually, what is this Redlog?

Yet, for some shots, Redlog, at least, is not the only choice for gamma. Can I mix with different gamma in the same film?

I will ask the post house immediately about their LUT. But say if they tell me their LUT, and then how I can adjust my software, Color, to accommodate to their film recorder?

Thanks a lot.

luis ignacio barrague said:
Hi King, you really need to talk with your post house facility. You need to know wich color space the film recorder uses, so you can have a LUT for it.
The way i would do it if possible:
Color space : Redcolor
Gamma Space: Redlog (it will look like milky but you will have more dynamic range to work with)
The test, try it to make it two 30 seconds tests. The first one you check the color space and gamma options for color grading and if your lut and monioring is working..try to take your computer setup to the projection. The second one is when you already have your workflow locked and before print you just want to check it. Choose diferent scenes.. like interior, exterior, close ups, natural light,artificial light, logos and credits...
I don´t know your post house and your workflow but look if they have this stock for DI and you can use it http://business.fujifilm.co.uk/motion/eternardi.html

About LUT and color space relation is that your LUT is based on your color space. You have a REC709 or Log you need to have or create a LUT for this color space.
Click to expand...
 
By the way, what does LUT stand for? How can I study more about it?
Thanks.
 
Today I came back from a post productions house and looked at my 1 minute test. It was horrible. The contrast is just bad.
I asked about the LUT or gamma and etc. They gave me no answer and said that their machine cannot be changed. The only information is that they use Arrilaser.
What can I do?
 
King Cheung said:
Today I came back from a post productions house and looked at my 1 minute test. It was horrible. The contrast is just bad.
I asked about the LUT or gamma and etc. They gave me no answer and said that their machine cannot be changed. The only information is that they use Arrilaser.
What can I do?
Click to expand...

Where are you located King? We have successfully color grade for film out using the right color management which, in our case is Cinespace, and the right LUT from the film out facilities. Lim
 
Thanks a lot, Tai Wah, I have just sent you a PM about my location.

Tai Wah Lim said:
Where are you located King? We have successfully color grade for film out using the right color management which, in our case is Cinespace, and the right LUT from the film out facilities. Lim
Click to expand...
 
you are very right, Charles, if it were in an ideal situation and right budget. Yet, the world is far from perfect, and somehow the so called professional is hardly perfect either. I think that's why this kind of forum exists for us to exchange information.
Thanks a lot for your advice, anyway.

Charles Angus said:
I have to say - and I hope this doesn't sound harsh - it sounds like you're in way over your head.

Have the colouring done at the post house doing the filmout by a professional.

That's the best advice you're gonna get on this issue.
Click to expand...
 
The post house omits the fact that we often design custom LUTs for clients just so that the material looks right in the color-correction room.

Be warned that I have worked on Final Cut projects where the material was so screwed-up, we had no room to undo the damage. We were forced to go back to the original files and color-time it all from scratch.

This doesn't happen nearly as much as it used to, but it does point to the absolute necessity to calibrate your monitor so that what you see there will be identical to what you see in the post house (and ultimately on film). Arrilasers are great, but there is no absolute standard on viewing LUTs, input LUTs and output LUTs. This is where having a good post supervisor will be worth their weight in gold.
 
Thanks, Marc.

Marc Wielage said:
The post house omits the fact that we often design custom LUTs for clients just so that the material looks right in the color-correction room.

Be warned that I have worked on Final Cut projects where the material was so screwed-up, we had no room to undo the damage. We were forced to go back to the original files and color-time it all from scratch.

This doesn't happen nearly as much as it used to, but it does point to the absolute necessity to calibrate your monitor so that what you see there will be identical to what you see in the post house (and ultimately on film). Arrilasers are great, but there is no absolute standard on viewing LUTs, input LUTs and output LUTs. This is where having a good post supervisor will be worth their weight in gold.
Click to expand...
 
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