The Perfect Filter Combination

[Andrew Patterson]

I'm needing to buy all the necessary filters for outdoor shooting. I understand that I need several ND Filters (.3 and .6 and 1.2 are what I intend to buy).

My questions regard the Infrared Filters versus Non-Infrared Filters. If I buy one Infrared Filter or one Hot Mirror Filter and put it in the front (furthest away from the lens), will that take care of all of my IR problems?

Or would it be better to buy each ND with the Hot Mirror and IR built in? If that's the case, can I stack IRND Hot Mirror Filters.

I've read that IR doesn't matter below .9 -- if that's the case can my .3 ND and my .6 ND be non-IR and non Hot Mirror? And if that's the case, can my 1.2 be an IRND Hot Mirror and always be in front of the .6 for POLA?

To sum up, I have been looking for the perfect combination but don't understand the stacking. I'd like to spend less than $3000, but will go over for the best results.

Thank you all for the continued guidance for the younger and less experienced!

Andrew

 

[Andrew J.]

For ND's .3 .6 .9 keep in the hot mirror straight, for the combo ND & mirror remove the other hot mirror.

Pola should go in the front most holder, Hot Mirror should go in the front most holder as well.

Here is a good must have list for optical filtration

Formatt ND .3
Formatt ND .6
Formatt ND .9
Formatt Hot Mirror Infrared ND 1.2
Formatt Hot Mirror
Formatt Circular Pola
Tiffen Circular Warm Pola

 

[Andrew Patterson]

Andrew J -- Thank you for the response. This helps tremendously!

So if I'm understanding you correctly you're saying don't buy Hot Mirror IR on anything below 1.2. And if I'm going to use the 1.2 Hot Mirror with another filter, make sure it is in the front.

What did you mean by 'keep in the hot mirror straight"?

Does a Hot Mirror do the same thing as an IR Filter?

Also, why Formatt rather than Tiffen or Schneider? On the Formatt Website there are HD Filters and Glass Filters -- which ones should I be looking at for RED?

Last, does POLA mean 1.2 + .6 as Evin Grant discussed here:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3976

Or does it mean something else?

Thank you!

 

[Shawn Booth]

Andrew - You need a POLA (polarizing filter, look for TruPola, preferably a 138mm circular if you're using a normal matte box). A POLA is 3 stops...

You also need ND 3, 6, 9. With a POLA and a N9 you have "closed the iris down 6 stops"... Do you need more? Really?

Anything else is choice and based on you're abilities to control exposure.

I have yet to purchase, use or need an IR filter/hot mirror, nor ND1.2 or above... I shoot a lot outside in the jungle, beach, bright sunny days with tons of clouds...

(I like Chocolates, Tobaccos, Silvers and Corals...)

Perfection doesn't exist by-the-way... No perfect combo... Today, all I need is an N6. Tomorrow, I need Coral 5 plus an N9 for the first 4 shots than we lose the N9 and drop down to a Coral 3....

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I'd say that for narative work, ND 1.2 and 1.5 can be usefull.
The IR thingy is a tricky one. 19 out of 20 days, you won't need it, but when you need it, it is right up there with a pola... (which is unexusable NOT to have).

I'd say: Get a tiffen IR block, stay out of combined IR/ND filters and do not ever consider "mirror" IR filters, as they'll cause reflections when you stack filters (even a pola or a grad)

I'd at least get one 0.6 softgrad ND, possibly a 0.9 if I had to choose.

 

[Mark Wilkinson]

For me: Pola, NDs and ND grads a must for exterior work. I have yet to reach for the IR filter I always have with me, but I'm sure the day I leave it in the hotel room, I will.

 

[Andrew Patterson]

Thank you, all - I'm almost there.

Shawn -- I have a 4x5.65 Mattebox. For the POLA would this work: http://www.filmtools.com/schneidcirtr1.html

So POLA always refers to a .9 Polarizing filter? Should POLA always be at the very front of the stack?

Is a Hot Mirror the same thing as an IRND? Can that go in front of POLA if there are IR problems?

Finally, what brand? Tiffen, Roscoe, Formatt, Schneider?

 

[Charles Angus]

Check out Art Adams IR tests on the RED over at Pro Video Coalition.

No affiliation, etc. etc.

 

[Raphael Varandas]

Yeah...this article is pretty good to make a decision and to learn a lot...
cheers
:thumbsup:

 

[Andrew J.]

So if I'm understanding you correctly you're saying don't buy Hot Mirror IR on anything below 1.2. And if I'm going to use the 1.2 Hot Mirror with another filter, make sure it is in the front.

For ND's .3 .6 .9 you need to use the hot mirror straight(not a combo), keep the hot mirror in the front most holder and then place in a .3 .6 .9 ND but don't place in a ND 1.2 + for the hot mirror straight.

For ND's 1.2 and higher you "should not" use the hot mirror straight you need a special combo ND+IR HOT MIRROR filter, its two in one.

What did you mean by 'keep in the hot mirror straight"?

Hot mirror straight is the "non-ND-combo" version.

Does a Hot Mirror do the same thing as an IR Filter?

Thank you!

IR Filter can be one of two things, a cold mirror or hot mirror, a cold mirror will remove the visible spectrum and only allow IR threw, while a hot mirror will remove IR and allow the visible spectrum threw.

Also, why Formatt rather than Tiffen or Schneider? On the Formatt Website there are HD Filters and Glass Filters -- which ones should I be looking at for RED?

Every company makes each filters to a different spec, you need a set from each company really :frown2:

Here is a link to the Formatt ones.

http://www.abelcine.com/store/Red-Filter-Package-Formatt-IR-ND-4x5.65/

 

[Andrew J.]

Andrew - You need a POLA (polarizing filter, look for TruPola, preferably a 138mm circular if you're using a normal matte box). A POLA is 3 stops...

Which Pola are you using that gives a 3 stop loss?

 

[Rob Ruffo]

We use the Rossco IR filter - no problems with IR, ever, even using 1.8 or 2.1 NDs.

We shoot narrative, so sometimes at 1.2 in bright sunlight - means A LOT of ND.