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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

CAMERA as GOOD as the SCARLET ??

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George D.

George D.

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Is there ANY camera out there at all (camcorder, DSLR) that comes close to the "interchangeable lens" Scarlet by RED (if it ever comes out)?

With the same sensor size?

With the same HD 1080p quality?

Able to record in RAW HD, or close?

In a price range under the RED-One?

Acceptable for major television production?

Etc, etc, etc ??

Thanks.
 
SI-2K is about as close as you get. Sumix is an option... 2/3", uncompressed 1080/60p and 720/120p, c-mount - $2500... but like the SI-2k, you need a tethered laptop.

But, it is unfair to compare a camera that is not on the market to a camera that is on the market..... none of us know what will be out when the Scarlet is released.
 
Jim Retar said:
But, it is unfair to compare a camera that is not on the market to a camera that is on the market..... none of us know what will be out when the Scarlet is released.
Click to expand...

True, very true, but unlike you, I'm sure, some of us are of the age where we just cannot afford to wait any longer.

You may not know this yet, but TIME is our enemy. And, there is NO stopping it, or slowing it down. I, personally, am of the age where I cannot wait 5 or 10 years for improved technology. I must act NOW, or wash away downstream with all the other time-wasters. ;)

PS -
The SI-2K is not even a consideration. It has a bad reputation, considered by many to be a piece of junk, and would end up costing more than the RED-One when all is said and done anyway. Then, you'd be stuck with a camera that does not hold a candle to the RED-One.

Oh well, the search goes on.
 
George, I'm not aware of your personal situation and won't even pretend to be so my only suggestion is that if time is the most important thing, i.e you have to shoot something right now, there are at least ten configurations out there that are affordable to either buy or rent that in my mind are only limited by the filmmaker. In other words, in the hands of someone who knows how to light, knows how to problem solve, and is willing to take full advantage of these camera's strengths and avoid their weaknesses, movie magic can happen. Certainly, when Scarlet is released, it will offer filmmakers yet another strong tool for telling their stories and will probably be far superior to many other options in the price range. Until then, I encourage you to create NOW and fine tune later. Lighting, composition, story, performance, sound design, set design, etc. will all play bigger roles than the camera.

I own a RED, but I am not Vilmos Zsigmond. It really is that simple.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
George, I'm not aware of your personal situation and won't even pretend to be so my only suggestion is that if time is the most important thing, i.e you have to shoot something right now, there are at least ten configurations out there that are affordable to either buy or rent that in my mind are only limited by the filmmaker. In other words, in the hands of someone who knows how to light, knows how to problem solve, and is willing to take full advantage of these camera's strengths and avoid their weaknesses, movie magic can happen. Certainly, when Scarlet is released, it will offer filmmakers yet another strong tool for telling their stories and will probably be far superior to many other options in the price range. Until then, I encourage you to create NOW and fine tune later. Lighting, composition, story, performance, sound design, set design, etc. will all play bigger roles than the camera.

I own a RED, but I am not Vilmos Zsigmond. It really is that simple.
Click to expand...

Great insight Steve, and you're right. But, I'm not quite in THAT much of a hurry.

As we all know, the camera is ONLY a tool to help us achieve our goals, and there is always a lot to do before we commence shooting, but we still need the "right tool" to do the job. Why waste time with something, that after all your hard work, ends up unsellable.

"......I am not Vilmos Zsigmond." Who the hell is. That's for sure. Now that was one VERY skilled man. I met him once on a shoot when I was in Special Visual Effects. Nice, modest guy too.

Steve, would you be kind enough to list those "ten configurations" ?? I was not aware there were any, let alone ten.
 
George D. said:
The SI-2K is not even a consideration. It has a bad reputation, considered by many to be a piece of junk
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Is this something you have heard off industry pros, found out yourself...... or read on the internet, possibly on a biased forum?... I had no problems with this camera and know others that also had no problems. Go rent one and see how it goes.

Remember RED had this reputation too. Things change.

If you are in no immediate rush... then see how 2010 pans out... I foresee a very interesting 6 months.

What kind of shoot are you thinking about... cinema release, ENG, docu?
 
I haven't heard of anything, announced or otherwise, that will equal or exceed Scarlet's announced specs at Scarlet's announces price.

If you are willing to make some compromises, I think you'd be pretty happy by years end. Of course, by then Scarlet may not be too far out (months).
 
Jim Retar said:
Is this something you have heard off industry pros, found out yourself...... or read on the internet, possibly on a biased forum?... I had no problems with this camera and know others that also had no problems. Go rent one and see how it goes.

Remember RED had this reputation too. Things change.

If you are in no immediate rush... then see how 2010 pans out... I foresee a very interesting 6 months.

What kind of shoot are you thinking about... cinema release, ENG, docu?
Click to expand...

I'm talking about major television production.

Hell, man, I wish I could rent one. I wish I could rent ALL the cameras I'm investigating, but since I live way out in the boonies, about 400 miles from the nearest large city that even HAS camera rentals, that does not make it very feasible.
 
George D. said:
Great insight Steve, and you're right. But, I'm not quite in THAT much of a hurry.

As we all know, the camera is ONLY a tool to help us achieve our goals, and there is always a lot to do before we commence shooting, but we still need the "right tool" to do the job. Why waste time with something, that after all your hard work, ends up unsellable.
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Unless the specs for whom you are selling to specifically say they will not take the format you are shooting on, then to me, everything is sellable. But I agree with your overall point, that if you are able to select the best tool for the job, then doing so makes a lot of sense. The problem is, sometimes people can't afford those tools. So, in those cases I always recommend to people to shoot with whatever they can afford at that moment. For example, some people I know who were waiting for Scarlets decided to buy 7D in the meantime, and they've been out shooting and even making some money. I have no doubt Scarlet will be a far better camera. But they would have wasted a lot of time waiting. I love image quality. It's why I take my RED into places I probably shouldn't due to its size. But I take the bumbs and bruises to eek out a lot more quality. So, I do understand where you are coming from.
"......I am not Vilmos Zsigmond." Who the hell is. That's for sure. Now that was one VERY skilled man. I met him once on a shoot when I was in Special Visual Effects. Nice, modest guy too.
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If I had anywhere near the talent of Vilmos, my RED would be worth quite a bit of money. :-)
Steve, would you be kind enough to list those "ten configurations" ?? I was not aware there were any, let alone ten.
Click to expand...
I was referring to rigs such as HPX500 with 35mm Pro Adapter and things like that. I have seen amazing television content shot with these style of rigs. They have their drawbacks but because the people using them were so skilled, the image quality held up very nicely. I have also seen amazing work with 7D and 5D. The camera played a role in the sense that it allowed for that 35mm look, but mostly I was impressed with story, composition things like that. Yes, the codec has issues. But it wasn't a limiting factor. But given the choice, I would still go RED before any of these options.
 
These could be some options by end 2010, (i'm guessing at a budget of sub $10k?):

EX1
EX3
AF-100 with Nano Flash
New Sony with HDMI recorder (possibly)
Canon's expected s35 cam.
Scarlet Fixed.
Scarlet Cinema.

I would hope that all of the above will resolve quite a nice 1080p image without aliasing and jello.

Scarlet will trump them all with the exception of sensor size, edit time and price (and, of course, availability.... even if it is launched in 2010, how many back orders will there be?)
 
Steve Sherrick said:
. But given the choice, I would still go RED before any of these options.
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That's exactly what I've been thinking lately.

What we are considering doing, is, for now, to go with the 7D. And, if the Scarlet is not out by December or January, then we will buy a RED-One and not look back. We will have to shoot it in 2K 90% of the time because of our lens constraints, but you can't beat the bang for the buck with that beautiful camera. The RED-One is on the top of the list of acceptable cameras for the television companies we work for.
 
Trevor Emmerson said:
maybe this? but its not out yet either. looks cool but

ikonoskop A-cam dII

Uncompressed 1080p, CCD about the same size as scarlet 2/3'', PL mount, 1-60fps...

might ship b4 scarlet, maybe
Click to expand...

Now, THIS camera (Ikonoskop A-Cam dII) looks very, VERY, interesting. I will most definitely check into that.
 
Jim Retar said:
These could be some options by end 2010, (i'm guessing at a budget of sub $10k?):

EX1
EX3
AF-100 with Nano Flash
New Sony with HDMI recorder (possibly)
Canon's expected s35 cam.
Scarlet Fixed.
Scarlet Cinema.

I would hope that all of the above will resolve quite a nice 1080p image without aliasing and jello.

Scarlet will trump them all with the exception of sensor size, edit time and price (and, of course, availability.... even if it is launched in 2010, how many back orders will there be?)
Click to expand...

The EX1/3 is probably the worst camera to put up there. The codec is a joke, in my opinion compared to the codecs Panasonic is using. The amount of skew and jello from the EX1/3 is considered to be the industry standard baseline for what is considered "too much skew." You forget to mention cameras like the HPX370 which completely blow the EX1/3 out of the water. I would even say the that hacked GH1 produces better images than Sony's XDCAM lineup. The new Sony is supposed to have a lot of problems from what I've been reading, but can't say that its true because I haven't used it yet.

And I don't think RED would be dumb enough to release the Scarlet without having a ton on the shelf in their warehouse.
 
EX1/3 can also take external recorders via HD-SDI... i've used the EX1 without though and liked the results.... really depends what you are after though. (I was shooting on a doc)
 
The ikonoskop A-cam dII also records uncompressed raw to CinemaDNG. I *almost* put down a deposit a week ago.
 
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