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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC and Alexa...

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Jannard

Jannard

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Well... given the post about DR by monitor path, I guess it is time to post our tests. We shot the Alexa and EPIC Tattoo prototype "Presto" a couple of days ago. Here are our results. We acknowledge that everyone has their favorite way of testing... ours uses the DSC charts. We also acknowledge that we have EPICs and no one else does. Oh, well...

1st, Dynamic Range. Congratulations to Arri on a job well done with Alexa. It now looks like there are two cameras that make great film alternative options.

Here is the Dynamic Range test we did using the DSC chart. I'd give a slight advantage to the Alexa which was designed with a larger pixel than Epic.

1279277171.jpg


Now resolution. This shouldn't come as a surprise.

1279365934.jpg


And the resolution charts...

1279325808.png


1279347594.png


We believe that everyone should do their own testing. One thing to remember is that RED believes that resolution matters.

Jim
 
BTW... the circles are 2K and the graphs are 4K..

Jim
 
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Peter Majtan said:
Now that's what I am talking about...

:sifone: Peter

PS: Jim - is that banding artifact on the third group from the top because of black-shading (or the lack thereof)?
Click to expand...

You are actually seeing the streaks on the chart. That is what resolutions is all about.

Jim
 
Wow, that's a huge difference in resolution!

I can control my scene contrast and a small difference isn't a big deal for me.
But I can't add resolution to a camera if it's not there to begin with.
 
The difference between the resolutions is staggering. Epic, even. Given that with EPIC we have the freedom of RAW, and both cameras have decent dynamic range to begin with, you certainly chose the right balance in going for resolution rather than highest possible DR. In real world, no one will notice the Alexa's slightly better theoretical DR, but everyone will notice the difference in resolution.

Congratulations to everyone at Red, this is a great achievement.
 
Additional note... 5K (5120x2560) is approximately 6.5 time the resolution of 1080P. If you take measured resolution of 4K vs. 1.65K, it is approximately 5.5 times the resolution.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
You are actually seeing the streaks on the chart. That is what resolutions is all about.

Jim
Click to expand...

Normally I see this on a underexposed RED ONE (non-MX) without black-shading. I just thought You are still ironing out the firmware. Reading Your response makes me that much more relaxed...

:thumbup:
 
I want an Epic so badly now :(

This is like the difference between small and big sensors.
 
Thanks, this is exactly what I was waiting for. I am surprised that Alexa isn't closer to 2K. I would expect the Alexa to edge it in terms of DR and sensitivity though, but it is interesting to see how close the Epic gets, despite 5 times the resolution on a similar sized sensor. Would love to see more comparisons.
 
I do not see much of a gap in dynamic range. But the resolution is pretty jaw dropping. especially since those are only 2k resolution charts and the Alex with its oversampling should resolve the entire chart, not just 1.5 of it.
 
Subhadip Sen said:
Thanks, this is exactly what I was waiting for. I am surprised that Alexa isn't closer to 2K. I would expect the Alexa to edge it in terms of DR and sensitivity though, but it is interesting to see how close the Epic gets, despite 5 times the resolution on a similar sized sensor. Would love to see more comparisons.
Click to expand...

Same here. I was expecting it'd be dead on 2k and with less aliasing too. Bummer, the alexa looks less sharp than the f35 one that was posted.

Resolution-Chart1.jpg


Can't wait to see epic projected in imax!
 
Jim, any chance you could please share the last six bars of the DR charts at 1:1? That might be too much to ask since you are still working on EPIC, but if that is OK I would love to see them to appreciate what happens at the bottom edge to gauge what might be usable for my taste. It seems Alexa gets chunky, perhaps sooner than M-X gets grainy.

Alexa does seem to have a bit more DR, but if it isn't as clean as M-X in the shadows, then I am not so sure how much DR Alexa really has over M-X... not a lot, that's for sure.

Jannard said:
You are actually seeing the streaks on the chart. That is what resolutions is all about.

Jim
Click to expand...

:coolgleamA:
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Jim, any chance you could please share the last six bars of the DR charts at 1:1? That might be too much to ask since you are still working on EPIC, but if that is OK I would love to see them to appreciate what happens at the bottom edge to gauge what might be usable for my taste. It seems Alexa gets chunky sooner than M-X gets grainy.

Alexa does seem to have a bit more DR, but if it isn't as clean as M-X in the shadows, then I am not so sure how much DR Alexa really has over M-X... not a lot, that's for sure.



:coolgleamA:
Click to expand...

The Alexa is a great camera... that's what I have been saying since I 1st saw it at IBC last year.

Jim
 
what surprised me yesterday at the arri website is that they wrote that the camera will record RAW with 2.8K res.. much less than the announced 3.5K..
and now this test proves something different.. now I believe why RED isn't in a hurry for releasing their new camera's..
well it also records that raw on an external refrigrator sized recorder.. what is this? non-respect to customers?
 
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