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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED vs Film School

chrislancaster said:
I own final cut studio and have been using it regularly for two years. I have still and some amateur video experience as well.
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Keep editing. It's a good skill to have in your back pocket and since you already own it, you can use it whenever you get the chance.

Im looking for the best way to get on set and work my way up.
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Go to every film/video/media related event in your area. Any kind of industry event, film screenings, etc. Get to know people who work on crews. Show them an interest in working your way up in the industry. It's all about networking when it comes to getting on projects.

I thought owning and getting experience with a red camera could get me some experience with no/lo budget films and go from there.
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Owning a RED camera is a significant investment. If money is no object, then sure, buy one ASAP and play around with it. However, gaining experience is also about watching other people work who have been doing it for a long time. Getting on set is important.

best way to get on set at entry level ?
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Network

Im 30 years old since age seems to be a factor.
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You are still plenty young. Lots of time to get into this.

I have previous experience as an actor and always admired the crew and always wanted to be on that side of things.
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What kind of sets were you on? TV, movies, corporate? It's good that you have seen this from the other side. Will come in handy later on.

As for film school vs. real world experience. I went to film school. I don't regret it.The networking there led to a paid production job right out of school. The true learning came in the real world though.

Maybe the best bet for you is a mix. Get onto as many sets as you can. Network with as many people as you can, and take some classes that help fill in the gaps in your knowledge. I don't think it needs to be an either/or situation.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Keep editing. It's a good skill to have in your back pocket and since you already own it, you can use it whenever you get the chance.


Go to every film/video/media related event in your area. Any kind of industry event, film screenings, etc. Get to know people who work on crews. Show them an interest in working your way up in the industry. It's all about networking when it comes to getting on projects.


Owning a RED camera is a significant investment. If money is no object, then sure, buy one ASAP and play around with it. However, gaining experience is also about watching other people work who have been doing it for a long time. Getting on set is important.


Network


You are still plenty young. Lots of time to get into this.


What kind of sets were you on? TV, movies, corporate? It's good that you have seen this from the other side. Will come in handy later on.

As for film school vs. real world experience. I went to film school. I don't regret it.The networking there led to a paid production job right out of school. The true learning came in the real world though.

Maybe the best bet for you is a mix. Get onto as many sets as you can. Network with as many people as you can, and take some classes that help fill in the gaps in your knowledge. I don't think it needs to be an either/or situation.
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Thanks Steve and everyone else I really appreciate the effort of your post.

I did a whole lot of extra work (live free or die hard, bucket list - csi ny, miami) probably over 40 shows and movies. I have also done a lot of local roles in hawaii.



I know extra works not respected but i was really there for my experience and i loved it.




What ive learned from this thread is theres no one way just like so many other things in life.


Good enough thread #495
meaning of life is very easy... find out what you are good at and what you love. Put yourself in a position to do just that.

Jim
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This is what makes this forum very special. The sincerity of everyones posts is inspiring. Thank you to all you busy people who are so generous with sharing your time and experience. Good luck Chris, hope it all works out for you, keep following your dream and one day you will be living it :)

All the best,

Tom
 
Background

Background

Just an aside, it really bugs me when I work on a set where I see people not respecting the background people or PAs. Everyone on set is a professional until proven otherwise, and making people sit in the hot sun without enough shade or water is uncool, no matter if it's a union gig or not. I won't stand for that kind of thing on my sets, and I complain when I see it on others'.

Sorry, rant <<off>> now.

And I think it's quite likely that if you kept your eyes and ears open while you worked as a background performer, you probably learned a whole lot of very useful stuff that will definitely help you with your own films.
 
patrickortman said:
Just an aside, it really bugs me when I work on a set where I see people not respecting the background people or PAs. Everyone on set is a professional until proven otherwise, and making people sit in the hot sun without enough shade or water is uncool, no matter if it's a union gig or not. I won't stand for that kind of thing on my sets, and I complain when I see it on others'.

Sorry, rant <<off>> now.

And I think it's quite likely that if you kept your eyes and ears open while you worked as a background performer, you probably learned a whole lot of very useful stuff that will definitely help you with your own films.
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Thanks Patrick. I loved the background work. I did learn a lot from being on set as well as the chance to act was great

How many people can say they watched Jack Nicholson go to work especially in a room with less than 30 people. Great moment in my life.
(back on topic)

the most important thing I learned was set etiquette.


background work would be great for any person looking to make their own films. You get a really great behind the scenes look at things.

centralcasting.com <--- good place to start


if any cares to be the fly on the wall for a day or two.
 
As someone who is currently $140k in the hole from my film school experience I have a pretty good first-hand understanding of the cost/benefit relationship there.

If your interest is in working as a below-the-line crewmember on a film shoot, I would not recommend film school. Starting as a PA in your department of choice would be much better for you and not cost you nearly as much... though it will cost you in low-wages and time.

If you are a storyteller who has ambitions of being at the core of the creative team then film school can be a worthwhile endeavor. As mentioned by some of the others here, film school is not only about learning (more about) the craft but also making the relationships that will help you find and create work; and more importantly, about buying yourself the time to do that work. With student loans you can essentially allot yourself a window of time within which you don't have to worry about a paycheck and can just focus on your craft. You have to be ready to make use of that time though if you want it to pay off.

One question I do think plays into this is what type of school are you talking about? Do you have an undergrad degree? Are we talking about taking some classes at your local college or going to a top-tier Masters program? If it's the former, I wouldn't suggest full-time... just take a class here and there to improve your skills or knowledge in a particular area. If it's the latter they can be the exact gateway to a career transition that you may be looking for (even for someone in their 30's), but again, are not cheap or guaranteed.

If you plan on staying in Oahu and want to work in the camera department, just reach out to the others in that community (like Shawn) and start by fetching coffee and staying out of the way. It's the surest way to earn respect and camaraderie from the crew.
 
This is my take on this interesting subject:

I'm an autodidact and I managed to get into business in the late 80ies, early 90ies. I was not mature enough to go to film school but I wanted to become a cameraman desperately. With a partner I bought a Betacam ENG kit and started a business for ENG teams when I was 23. All money came from the bank, we had a good business plan. 2 years later we had 4 Betacam kits and I was an small entrepreneur.

I was totally into the camera thing and managed with music clips to become a DOP for commercials. 10 years later I started directing. Now I'm a producer, writer and director.

The funny thing is that I, as an autodidact, started teaching filmmaking at university. This changed my perspective again. University is a great place for young talents who are mature enough to work from their own. As any artist they have to know what they are interested in, how things should be done. In short, film school is for young people who write, direct and are already filmmakers but need to meet others, be it fellow students or teachers, to accomplish their projects.

As a teacher it's my task to put energy into the class (same thing I have to do as a producer/director), to push them to start and, most importantly, finish the projects and finally to give feedback. I rarely give lessons regarding technical aspects. Mostly the students know a lot already, some time more than me - the bar is pretty high.

IMHO, film school is the wrong place for people who want to work in a technical department, being the DOP the only exception because this job has many content relevant aspects.

Hans
 
TedRed said:
The crash course to learn the RED (and then go make a movie) is REDucation... we are hosting another class in early August in LA (Burbank) for one week. Details here...

http://www.reducation.net/

and working now on developing a specialized class for Universities, Film Schools, and Trade schools to send their key staff members to, so they can immerse themselves in RED learning, and then take those skills out to their schools and their students...

more to come on that in the REDucation thread in the coming weeks.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28552

+ Ted
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You just make sure you call your friend Jackie G. before anyone else!
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
IMHO, film school is the wrong place for people who want to work in a technical department, being the DOP the only exception because this job has many content relevant aspects.

Hans
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My school is far more technical and practical than theory, so, we learn more about cameras and lighting and everything than theory and history.

However, film school is basically an address book. it gets you contacts, and gets you in contact with people who can get you in contact with the right people. That is singe-handedly more valuable than experience when you're first starting out. The other great thing is that it allows you to make and learn from your mistakes without major repercussions.

However, once you reach a certain age, you might as well just try and crew for sets rather than go to school, since school is full time, like, 100% of your life dedicated to it full time.
 
Why not do something first that can be applied anywhere, like getting a business degree?
I have seen many many good shooters come and go that were much more talented than me. But they didn't have a clue how to manage their business.

Good Luck!
 
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