Can Red make a "simple" 2/3" Fixed Scarlet?

[Phil Jagger]

$4750 for a working kit 2/3" fixed model. This is common knowledge. Why would you be shocked?

It is going to cost way more than that to start shooting properly. One battery and one CF card aint going to be enough.

 

[John Caballero]

It's like deja vu all over again.

 

[Phil Jagger]

Sorry, I should have added a sarcastic face or something...I am no good at using them.

 

[Kyle Presley]

It is going to cost way more than that to start shooting properly. One battery and one CF card aint going to be enough.

Well no, but it would be a working camera. You can't buy any camera off the shelf and expect to use it on a production without peripherals being purchased.

The price may or may not change, who knows? But you can't currently buy ANY HD camera with a 2/3" chip/imaging block for less than ten grand. Your money would probably be better spent on an HDSLR if you want something cheap and "only" 1080P.

 

[brian hanson]

i'm surprised i haven't seen it suggested more often on reduser but why not just a redesign of the red one, slim it down and cut the cost by half to actually make it affordable to the market that lusts after it. i would own a red one right now if i could actually afford it but sadly the price tag is just too high for me.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Scarlet is spec'd to have 1080p RGB and full auto, full manual capabilities. And, less than $5K

I think it has everything your asking for with room to grow.

The primary thing he is asking for (Without really saying it.) is that he wants it yesterday.

The whole notion reminds me of a rookie 1st AD I worked with. After waiting 30 minutes for us to light the location he decided to scrap the set-up and asks us to light another one... 20 minutes later he does the same thing... The next time he approached me got his head handed to him. He would have gone on like that all night if I let him and the picture still wouldn't be in the can today.

Show some intestinal fortitude man, and stay the course. Suck it up, and quit this bargaining behavior. It's pathetic.

 

[Max Goisser]

1. COST TO MANUFACTURE... will increase, since it's now likely US labor or manufacturing- and with that I expect at least another 20%-35% price increase conservatively. Plus, with unproven suppliers/manufacturing, long-term Quality becomes a major concern...

As I remember Jim said that the EPIC will still be manufactured in the US, and that they have to look for manufacturers in other countries (China?) to be able to keep the price of the SCARLET.

 

[Scott Crawley]

As I remember Jim said that the EPIC will still be manufactured in the US, and that they have to look for manufacturers in other countries (China?) to be able to keep the price of the SCARLET.

I believe Nick was responding to this post from Jim in which we presume his previous mfg partner was the Chinese company Foxconn. Correction: Foxconn is a Taiwanese firm with manufacturing facilities in China.

To compound matters, the company that was to make Scarlet has made an incredible announcement recently and has significant issues. You can probably figure out who this is. This will force us to find a new manufacturing partner for that product. When we 1st got wind of this, we decided to make EPIC in the US, hoping that the company would find a solution in time for Scarlet production. That now seems unlikely so we are now scrambling for a new partner.

Take heart Max. The glass half full view of this mght be that Jim plans to have Scarlet in production relatively soon.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I hear you Terry on Red's "if everything went as originally planned" path, but as I read Jim's post, here's what I see which means PRICE INCREASE...

1. COST TO MANUFACTURE... will increase, since it's now likely US labor or manufacturing- and with that I expect at least another 20%-35% price increase conservatively. Plus, with unproven suppliers/manufacturing, long-term Quality becomes a major concern...

2. SALES VOLUME... Any one of the following affects volume: price increases, perceived poor quality/RISK at launch, and new competition product launches eating away at the customer base...

Any price increase above $5K (not considering accessories) places the Fixed Camera out of the price range of many hoping to shoot RAW for the same or for less than a Sony EX-1R or Canon Mark 11/3?, or shooting with a pair for 3D such as myself...

Besides that, with every new delay (justified or not), there is a corresponding loss of sales to the competition every 6 months PLUS a loss of confidence that RED will truly roll out a bug-free mass-production camera, which means originally planned sales volume no longer justifies the originally planned price...

This also brings up a big issue... What will the Scarlet warranty likely be? ... and can the Warranty be extended?

I am not even talking about the price issue. I am simply saying that a redesign would result in a longer wait - not a shorter time to delivery.

I don't necessarily agree with the rest of your post but that isn't the point I was making.

EDIT: In fact, I completely disagree with your assessment of the market. First, I doubt it will be manufactured in the U.S. Just because one supplier didn't work out doesn't mean RED can't find another. Second, even in the unlikely event that the Scarlet is manufactured here - or, if for any other reason the price does goes up - I don't think there is any other camera anywhere near the Scarlet that will take away buyers. Even at $7-8K, as currently spec'd, it would still be way ahead of its competitors. For those who can't afford or justify what Scarlet offers, they will buy something cheaper and wish they could do better. But, there will still be plenty of buyers.

 

[chrislancaster]

i'm surprised i haven't seen it suggested more often on reduser but why not just a redesign of the red one, slim it down and cut the cost by half to actually make it affordable to the market that lusts after it. i would own a red one right now if i could actually afford it but sadly the price tag is just too high for me.

i think it would be great if they could lower the cost of the red 1 MX just a little bit when epic comes out


i dont even care that much about form .. just a few thousand cheaper with 4.5k and im happy (who wouldnt be?)


i know its cheap by standards of today but when epic releases the bar will be raised so much higher

 

[Adrian Frearson]

I can see the idea of a Scarlet Lite could be popular. But surely the current problems need to be ironed out first. Once the camera is released and if it is the camera that most think it's going to be, then they could offer this and potentially eat back into some of the original market that's been taken by the DSLRs.

 

[Nick D]

I am not even talking about the price issue. I am simply saying that a redesign would result in a longer wait - not a shorter time to delivery.

I don't necessarily agree with the rest of your post but that isn't the point I was making.

EDIT: In fact, I completely disagree with your assessment of the market. First, I doubt it will be manufactured in the U.S. Just because one supplier didn't work out doesn't mean RED can't find another. Second, even in the unlikely event that the Scarlet is manufactured here - or, if for any other reason the price does goes up - I don't think there is any other camera anywhere near the Scarlet that will take away buyers. Even at $7-8K, as currently spec'd, it would still be way ahead of its competitors. For those who can't afford or justify what Scarlet offers, they will buy something cheaper and wish they could do better. But, there will still be plenty of buyers.

Terry- Sorry to misinterpret your post, and you're rightly entitled to your opinion as there's no way to gauge who's technically correct, and I think discussing the Scarlet concept sometimes gets to a saturation point where everything is so much speculation and not worth the effort discussing regardless, as it doesn't make us better artists, help release cameras quicker, and ultimately we've all been wrong except for Jim's tagline, time and time again...

But if you've budgeted for one or two of these cameras every six months such as myself for a couple of years, it does get tired hearing a new story every critical announcement date that amounts to no working product yet...

Luckily, my absolute cut-off date for owning and operating a working Red Scarlet in hand is by NAB 2011, if not by then, maybe next round in 2015 or never...

Even at $10K right now there would be many buyers for the Scarlet fixed, but doubling the price would likely mean less than half as many buyers if we are talking about a linear demand curve based on the original sales figure targets, otherwise they'd rather deal with 1/2 as many customers for the same total profit...

I think we're both fans of the concept of the 2/3" Red Scarlet and ultimately we want to see Red succeed on releasing a working camera in the under $10K category, otherwise we'd rarely be on this Scarlet forum except prior to our next MX rental...

 

[David Rasberry]

We are all Jonesing bad for our Scarlets. But the promise of much higher performance and features than run of the mill HD cameras is exactly what keeps me interested. Higher res, higher frame rates, greater sensitivity and dynamic range, practical raw acquisition. It is an extremely ambitious target for Red to achieve at modest cost in so short a development time frame.
Personally I won't be satisfied with anything less since seeing the image quality coming from RED 1 M-X.

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

. . . if for any other reason the price does goes up . . .

Probably because it was priced so low to begin with, the fixed Scarlet 3K has been the most price-sensitive model in the line, having risen in price some 58% since it was first announced. Given recent announcements, I think it unlikely that the price will remain unchanged.

Even at $7-8K, as currently spec'd, it would still be way ahead of its competitors.

Yeah, but it would begin to approach the S35 in price.

 

[Jay Gannon]

But if you've budgeted for one or two of these cameras every six months such as myself for a couple of years, it does get tired hearing a new story every critical announcement date that amounts to no working product yet...

Unless your a rental house I don't see how that is part of a viable business plan. Why would you budget for 2 cameras every 6 months?

 

[Scott Crawley]

Probably because he has to submit a new budget 2 times a year... Not because he is buying 4 a year.

 

[Aaron Newsome]

He's not budgeting to buy NEW cameras every six months. He's budgeting to buy the SAME cameras every 6 months but they never have been made yet.

 

[Jay Gannon]

Ok that makes more sense!

 

[Nick D]

Probably because he has to submit a new budget 2 times a year... Not because he is buying 4 a year.

Yep, twice a year I have the opportunity to allocate funds for a pair of new cameras, or else the money goes elsewhere, or just sits unused which is unfortunate, as we all could use a raise...

 

[Jay Gannon]

Buy some cameras then, if the cash is there get a wide variety so as you have the choice.
RED One, Sony F800, Iconoscop, SI-2K, lots of good cams out there.