Bug...

[Brian Petrie]

Ha wow I googled it and you're right. People take things out of context and run with it. Oh well, we know what Jim meant and it's just very refreshing to have someone like him who actually interacts with his customers.

Here are the sites if anyone is interested:
http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&p=113110

http://www.photographybay.com/2010/...matographers-says-they-should-be-embarrassed/

 

[Chris Pickle]

I sometimes think (and wish) that Red should have released their next camera between the Red & the Epic. Maybe not tried to take such a big step forward. Maybe an S35 with the new chip, more over-cranking, and in the small form-factor. Lose the stills integration and get the next one out faster. The technology they've developed is leaps and bounds ahead of the field. It would still be great great value. I'm not saying to aim lower, but to get the big broad stroke advancements into the market. They'd still lead the pack.

 

[Mike Seymour]

I sometimes think (and wish) that Red should have released their next camera between the Red & the Epic. Maybe not tried to take such a big step forward. Maybe an S35 with the new chip, more over-cranking, and in the small form-factor. Lose the stills integration and get the next one out faster. The technology they've developed is leaps and bounds ahead of the field. It would still be great great value. I'm not saying to aim lower, but to get the big broad stroke advancements into the market. They'd still lead the pack.

they did - that is EXACTLY what they did with MX.
I have an MX we shoot on it almost every day - it is vastly better than the M - in the way I love a 5D Mk 2 over a 5D Mk1 - both are good cameras - but the new one is really great - and the thought of going back a generation hurts.

I think Red totally nailed it with the release of the MX - and frankly if we need to wait a little bit for the Epic - OK - the MX is great.


Mike

 

[Chris Pickle]

they did - that is EXACTLY what they did with MX.
I have an MX we shoot on it almost every day - it is vastly better than the M - in the way I love a 5D Mk 2 over a 5D Mk1 - both are good cameras - but the new one is really great - and the thought of going back a generation hurts.

I think Red totally nailed it with the release of the MX - and frankly if we need to wait a little bit for the Epic - OK - the MX is great.


Mike

Not EXACTLY. More over-cranking & smaller form factor would be fantastic. The Red One is a bear of a camera and the new smaller bodies is a massive difference in-itself. That alone would warrant a next-generation. No one in a million years would begrudge Red for releasing all of their coming advancements over two more generations.

 

[Mike Seymour]

I see your point - I do - but I can work around a bunch of stuff but not around a poor sensor - or rather I cant trick up the sensor (I do not mean to imply the M was bad in any way). The MX gave us the thing we wanted more than anything - better dynamic range - and without having the buy a bunch of new bits and pieces... it is the jewel of the Epic package. IMHO.
The thing about the form factor - I agree but given the choice between on the screen and better handling etc - I would pick the sensor - every time.

The MX roll out is not given enough credit IMHO - it is a really brilliant move and we are happily immediately making money and producing great pictures. Honestly Love it


Giving us nothing until Epic would have been a more typical path. Anyway I just love my camera - it is joy to use and produces 4.5K loveliness.

mike

 

[Elsie N]

Chris, if they solve this bug thing quickly then all would be great again, right? I'm just sayin' we shouldn't start doin' the shoulda, coulda thing until we learn that everyone working on this at RED is bald from pullin' their hair out.

 

[Chris Pickle]

I see your point - I do - but I can work around a bunch of stuff but not around a poor sensor - or rather I cant trick up the sensor (I do not mean to imply the M was bad in any way). The MX gave us the thing we wanted more than anything - better dynamic range - and without having the buy a bunch of new bits and pieces... it is the jewel of the Epic package. IMHO.
The thing about the form factor - I agree but given the choice between on the screen and better handling etc - I would pick the sensor - every time.

The MX roll out is not given enough credit IMHO - it is a really brilliant move and we are happily immediately making money and producing great pictures. Honestly Love it


Giving us nothing until Epic would have been a more typical path. Anyway I just love my camera - it is joy to use and produces 4.5K loveliness.

mike

I agree. From the sounds of it, the MX chip rocks. And a better sensor does beat form-factor. I think my perspective is more for folks that don't currently own a Red One. They know the small bodies are coming, might not want an Epic, but want to buy. The Red One caused a huge wave in the market, and now I bet there's lots more people that want in, but what do they do?

I really am a big fan of what Jim and the Red team have done. It's raised the production value of many projects and allowed more people to own.

 

[Will Weprin]

What about a basic working EPIC sooner?

What about a basic working EPIC sooner?

Not EXACTLY. More over-cranking & smaller form factor would be fantastic. The Red One is a bear of a camera and the new smaller bodies is a massive difference in-itself. That alone would warrant a next-generation. No one in a million years would begrudge Red for releasing all of their coming advancements over two more generations.

I think maybe an even better solution could be to release the EPIC with basic 5K video shooting enabled and then add the other features such as DSMC or anything that isn't ready yet in a later firmware update. I would be happy to have even a restricted EPIC sooner with more features to follow rather than waiting for everything to come together much later on.

Maybe this would only be for Stage 2 and stage 3 users who would better understand the reasoning behind this than the rest of the industry.

 

[Chris Pickle]

Chris, if they solve this bug thing quickly then all would be great again, right? I'm just sayin' we shouldn't start doin' the shoulda, coulda thing until we learn that everyone working on this at RED is bald from pullin' their hair out.

I said shoulda, coulda before this bug. I'm not rubbing salt. I personally want the S35 Scarlet and I always felt that it was the sweet spot in the market, as it covers almost everything and more that all 35mm film cameras do. That's just my preference.

 

[Elsie N]

I said shoulda, coulda before this bug. I'm not rubbing salt. I personally want the S35 Scarlet and I always felt that it was the sweet spot in the market, as it covers almost everything and more that all 35mm film cameras do. That's just my preference.

That I understand. I just thought you were suggesting RED follow the marketing plans of the other camera companies who release new models that are soon outdated by the next release.

But I think RED is making the Epic first in response to the loyalty of its customers. Jim said early on that the R-1 would make obsolescence obsolete. Then his brain realized that only a brain that could be outfitted with the other parts that complement it could really make obsolescence obsolete, so he started to work on that and made a huge commitment to his early believers that he would transition them from the R-1 to the Epic.

Scarlet didn't come first because he has to fulfill his promise to his base. But if I were waiting for a Scarlet, I would be wishin and hopin just like you.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Ha wow I googled it and you're right. People take things out of context and run with it. Oh well, we know what Jim meant and it's just very refreshing to have someone like him who actually interacts with his customers.

Here are the sites if anyone is interested:
http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&p=113110

http://www.photographybay.com/2010/...matographers-says-they-should-be-embarrassed/

I wish I had $1 for every "good enough for the season finale of House" reference from DSLR wannabe filmmakers, one could buy 100 EPIC-X

Totally disagree with the pickle. The M-X IS THE INTERIM CAMERA. as is The new Color science, new FREE software, etc etc.

Everyone one of those whiners will buy a Scarlet when it ships. Mark my words... as Jim said, they are aiming for the FUTURE. not today.

 

[Chris Pickle]

I wish I had $1 for every "good enough for the season finale of House" reference from DSLR wannabe filmmakers, one could buy 100 EPIC-X

Totally disagree with the pickle. The M-X IS THE INTERIM CAMERA. as is The new Color science, new FREE software, etc etc.

Everyone one of those whiners will buy a Scarlet when it ships. Mark my words... as Jim said, they are aiming for the FUTURE. not today.

I personally wasn't whining. And I have no desire to buy a Canon.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I personally wasn't whining. And I have no desire to buy a Canon.

I meant the whiners on the threads you posted. My disagreement with you was that RED should somehow of lowered the bar because they have a bug and introduced an INTERIM camera? No way. They are trying to release THE CAMERA> one that can be affordably upgraded for years. M-X and COlor Science really is like a whole new camera - Form factor I can wait for.

 

[Chris Pickle]

I meant the whiners on the threads you posted. My disagreement with you was that RED should somehow of lowered the bar because they have a bug and introduced an INTERIM camera? No way. They are trying to release THE CAMERA> one that can be affordably upgraded for years. M-X and COlor Science really is like a whole new camera - Form factor I can wait for.

I didn't mean they should release a different camera because of the bug. I always wanted the S35 Scarlet. The bug was coincidence. And my argument was not meant to be couched as lowering the bar. The S35 as generally discussed would be a wicked camera--and likely far superior to the current Red One.

You dream, I dream.

 

[Stephen Lovett]

Not EXACTLY. More over-cranking & smaller form factor would be fantastic. The Red One is a bear of a camera and the new smaller bodies is a massive difference in-itself. That alone would warrant a next-generation. No one in a million years would begrudge Red for releasing all of their coming advancements over two more generations.

I guess it's all a mater of perspective, but I'm totally with Mike on this one.

I'm on a shoot now where most of film is from magic hour to full night, and its a super low budget shoot. Big HMI's aren't an option.

The biggest instrument I have on the truck is a 2k, a few small HMI's etc, Dedos, Kinos etc..

The form factor / footprint thing isn't just about the camera. The sensor upgrade moves the needle in many dimensions. I'm confident with lower wattage tungsten balanced lights and shooting exterior night without the big gear.

Additionally I had my perspective adjusted when I sent my camera in for the upgrade.

Once I pulled all the crap off the camera, the camera itself doesn't weigh all that much. Add batteries, ET's great stuff, an evf, drive, rods, mattebox, FF etc. and yes it's a beast, but not more so than equivalent film camera.

I'm not discounting your point, and I've got my money where my mouth is with stage two, but the sensor upgrade was WAY more important to me personally than the form factor.

That said I look forward to a day when moving the camera around isn't a workout.

Steve

 

[chrislancaster]

r-1 mx has gained red a whole new level of respect

i would guess the MX chip was probably a factor in shooting POTC4 with red

4k helps too


vincent laforte shot on the mx recently



dslr and red serve different markets and i think dslrs have lowered the bar which puts red even more at the top

 

[Chris Pickle]

I guess it's all a mater of perspective, but I'm totally with Mike on this one.

I'm on a shoot now where most of film is from magic hour to full night, and its a super low budget shoot. Big HMI's aren't an option.

The biggest instrument I have on the truck is a 2k, a few small HMI's etc, Dedos, Kinos etc..

The form factor / footprint thing isn't just about the camera. The sensor upgrade moves the needle in many dimensions. I'm confident with lower wattage tungsten balanced lights and shooting exterior night without the big gear.

Additionally I had my perspective adjusted when I sent my camera in for the upgrade.

Once I pulled all the crap off the camera, the camera itself doesn't weigh all that much. Add batteries, ET's great stuff, an evf, drive, rods, mattebox, FF etc. and yes it's a beast, but not more so than equivalent film camera.

I'm not discounting your point, and I've got my money where my mouth is with stage two, but the sensor upgrade was WAY more important to me personally than the form factor.

That said I look forward to a day when moving the camera around isn't a workout.

Steve

My assumption was that any camera released between the Red One and the Epic would have the new chip. I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least some small amount of reasonable debate / discussion within Red on how they would release their coming advancements--over 1 generation or 2. I'd assume that's how they came up with the MX upgrade on the current Red One.

 

[chrislancaster]

My assumption was that any camera released between the Red One and the Epic would have the new chip. I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least some small amount of reasonable debate / discussion within Red on how they would release their coming advancements--over 1 generation or 2. I'd assume that's how they came up with the MX upgrade on the current Red One.

some day the epic owners will be upgrading to Monstro...
:shocked:

i could be wrong but i really hope i can be part of that

 

[Tom Lowe]

Let me be very clear... I fully expect the competition to release 4K cameras. They will be too late.

A quarterback throws where the receiver will be, not where he is. The industry will be behind if they are thinking 4K is the right place to be.

Jim

Exactly. This is a point most people don't seem to understand. If these other companies put out 4K RAW cameras, they will be shooting at a target that has already passed by. The target now is pristine 4K RGB finish, or as close to pristine as we can get, so you will need a 5K+ Bayer camera to do that.

And let's not even mention overcranking...

 

[Sam Druckerman]

Mel is shooting his latest movie on RED.

Jim

Jim, so good to have you back on the board!

I'd like to share .....

"How I Spent My Summer Vacation", Mel Gibson's new movie just wrapped production last week.

Shot with RED MX's (Billy's #13, Manny's #41, Vlad's #87, and my #81)

It's a Beautiful RED world....

Thanks Jim!