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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Pirates 4 Make OR Break RED

Stephen Pruitt said:
Ian is right on. POTC is the culminating achievement for the RED One. And Epic shall pick up the ball from here. Incredible. That's what it all is. Incredible.

Stephen
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Agreed. As it stands RED's Pandora is pretty much out of the box, particularly with the M-X sensor. EPIC will be total embellishment.
 
Cid J Salcido Uyarra said:
I look forward to the day when 65mm Digi exists, that will be the end of all end. Think about it, Digi IMAX!
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Bit of a provocation post if you ask me. But anyway, there is a 65mm Digital Cinema camera today; it's called the Phantom 65, and it's awesome.
 
So as to DP's there is only the bold and high end, the 3d and the prosumer?

I think there are a lot of overstatements happening here. Red lagging behind being one.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Bit of a provocation post if you ask me. But anyway, there is a 65mm Digital Cinema camera today; it's called the Phantom 6, and it's awesome.
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Mitch, are there any discussion boards for the Phantom products that you can recommend?
 
MichaelHalsell said:
Mitch, are there any discussion boards for the Phantom products that you can recommend?
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There's the Phantom Zone at the Vision Research website, but it is really mostly for Phantom owner/operators and much of the traffic is for scientific/technical use that has little interest to our production world. Otherwise it is generally me answering questions on various forums and mailing lists such as this and CML, along with stuff posted at the Abel Cine Tech website and on our blog, Cine Technica. Or in the many hundreds of emails and phone calls I return every week. You're more than welcome to ask me anything.

BTW, I made a typo before. I was referring to the Phantom 65. Corrected on my original post but you did quote me so I figure I should note it.
 
There are a great many people who don't think DSLRs are the perfect solution. They have serious image quality issues that many of us just can't live with, especially for certain types of work. We'll be quite happy to wait for the Scarlet, thank you very much.
 
Cid J Salcido Uyarra said:
...I really want a RED and I am ready for RAW video but I don't think it's here yet...

Cid
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I'm surprised that this many people are taking your opinion as seriously as they are. All your posts simply ask for more, more, more without any practical hands on experience with what is currently available from Red. You don't see to have any concept of "Good enough" as in "This equipment is good enough to get me to theaters". I would love to get an Epic, not for the additional frame size but for the frame rates.

For years now 1st gen negatives have been created by 2K printers. The Red is a 4K 4:4:4 camera (in reality it's closer to 3K) but most would still strike a 2K neg. Images from the Red One have already made it to theaters, it already is a proven technology. Sheesh...
 
Erik Franzén said:
Unless their workflow proves completely unstable, then RED has nothing to worry about. As long as the cameras capture beautiful images, the RAW workflow flows, then they have done their part.
If the movie happened to suck, that would make me sad monkey face. But wouldn't rub an inch of my faith in RED and what they're doing. Y'know?
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While on my trip I spoke to many shooters and their main complain was the workflow. I heard things like "the Arri Alexa is a RED ONE that works" and "Nobody knows what do to with RED RAW files".

Of course everybody for the most part on this forum has invested much time/money to understand and use the RED Workflow to it's fullest potential. So it's no problem for you guys but many student and other small personal projects I've worked on in the past they always hit a thick brick wall once they get to the post end after it's in the can. They can barley afford to rent the camera for their shoot, by no means do they know an editor with a RED Rocket so they're stuck and end up editing with proxy files.

This has nothing to do with Pirates 4, I'm going off topic but it's an issue people are exemplifying and putting bad vibes out. But then again RED started off as a Big Kid camera company and evolving to an all Pro status after this Disney Feature.
 
Stephen Matthews said:
Why do they have to use it, maybe there are just behind like all the old film nuts back when episode two was being made to stubborn to switch to a new way of doing things (or a new company with a new way of doing things). Red is a raw camera system, dslr's in the form factor they are in now or a while away from a raw shooting camera let alone one that competes with red(data rates, frame rates, overheating, olpf etc..). I think red is fine, actually more than fine I'm sure they will make it through "the following months".

To me those who question raw and the dsmc line of camera's and weather they would be better off with a 7d those are the people who don't get it. Now if you buy one as a stop gap or cause you don't have the money for red products fine but no reason to knock them if you don't understand them or want them. If you want the job done right and have as much flexibility as possible Red camera's are a much better motion video tool and in my mind will always be because they think about the end user and build around that.
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RED is built around a future proof shooter that won't be going through bodies every 1-3 years like DSLR. But why is the Scarlet giving a gilded hope to the younger, up and coming users? I feel to use a RED successfully you need a well aware crew and production.
 
Julio Quintana said:
Hey Cid. This is a bold statement about a camera that hasn't been released yet. I'm getting the new sensor in my camera next week, so come by and we can test your theories.

Julio
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I'm looking forward to a side by side test. Too bad we can't get some 35mm film/Camera and do some comparisons. I do have some 16mm but it kinda defeats the purpose since we are going for 35mm standard.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Cid -

For what it's worth - I understand the point your are trying to make - and YES - it's a big deal that Pirates 4 has chosen to shoot RED MX. But ... I'd also like to try to drive home the point that ONE film - no matter how big it is - isn't going to "make or break" a camera company.

The thing is .... RED ONE is already a proven camera. An Oscar and a couple of significant box office runs - countless critically acclaimed projects at all budget levels .... etc. etc. etc. ....
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It won't kill them but could damper the reputation or could start off this new camera line with a bad footing.

Couldn't really say at this point.
 
J. Eric Camp said:
So as to DP's there is only the bold and high end, the 3d and the prosumer?

I think there are a lot of overstatements happening here. Red lagging behind being one.
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I wouldn't consider the DP and Director of HOUSE to be prosumer considering they used MkII for season finale.

More or less three shooters with all different workflows.

So how is RED not lagging behind if we got no Scarlet announcement that we where suppose to be told?

Lets clear up these overstatements with facts?
 
Mitch Gross said:
Bit of a provocation post if you ask me. But anyway, there is a 65mm Digital Cinema camera today; it's called the Phantom 65, and it's awesome.
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Yes .. but. The Phantom 65 shoot about the same resolution as a REDONE. :)
More frames and aloooot higher price, but same res.
 
Stephen Strangways said:
There are a great many people who don't think DSLRs are the perfect solution. They have serious image quality issues that many of us just can't live with, especially for certain types of work. We'll be quite happy to wait for the Scarlet, thank you very much.
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DSLR aren't the perfect solution but we are dealing with it cause we have no choice. And yes we are all still waiting.....patiently at this point.

:undecided:
 
Cid J Salcido Uyarra said:
While on my trip I spoke to many shooters and their main complain was the workflow. I heard things like "the Arri Alexa is a RED ONE that works" and "Nobody knows what do to with RED RAW files".
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I'm not a Red Fanboy - but I do think it's a great camera.

Let's get one thing straight - when "nobody" knows what to do with R3d files how do films get made with Red? People LEARN the workflow and make it happen. For crying outloud the number of Hoops one has to go through to make Canon Eos HD footage or GH-1 HD footage actually editable is the same level of difficulty or worse than the Red workflow, except that after you recompress your HDSLR footage 3 times to get it right it looks even shittier than it did coming out of the camera.

The number one problem with Red is User Error. That and Batteries/Plates/Chargers - but that's another rant for another day.

People don't seem to know this - but the first things you do with a Red when you get it in for a camera prep is:

0. Make sure the camera has the latest firmware on it (30.5 right now)
1. Reset all user configuration and looks configuration to factory defaults.
2. black balance with a lens on the camera, stopped to T22 (or whatever your deepest stop is, with a lens cap on)
3. Carefully Test and Inspect all the batteries, chargers, and battery plates, and cables.

Then do all your other stuff. I feel like 90% of problems can be solved with proper camera prep. On low budget jobs - which is where the "shooter masses" form their opinion these days people don't even offer to pay for prep or even seem to want to Prep. A proper shoot requires proper preparation. If you can't prep a job you need a DP and AC's that are willing to go out of their way to make sure the camera is running correctly on the set instead of bitching about how "Red Sucks" and "We should have used film" Well - newsflash guys - film requires a prep too, and no - you don't see everything that can go wrong when shooting film - an inexperienced loader might flash a mag and not tell someone (something that happened to someone I know recently) thereby ruining a whole roll - and no one finds out until much later, so there is no way of reshooting without a whole extra day getting thrown out.

The HDSLR's aren't bullet proof either - (although they are made to endure much rougher and shittier treatment) On a fairly big shoot the other day the Production's 5D started changing ISO on its own even though it was in full manual control and had been all day. The solution - inform the producer the camera is acting weird, pull the battery, change the CF card, and start shooting again. Not "Damn, this 5D sucks. If only we were shooting film we'd never have any problems."

Let's be real - everyone wants everything for nothing these days or close to it. If you want to be able to work and get paid you have to learn the tools you will be working with. That's all. The HDSLR's are simply a Dumbing down of cinema technology. That was what initially attracted me, and now repulses me. I don't want something dumbed down - I want something that will allow me to craft images how I see them in my mind's eye.

In conclusion, a digital cinema camera is pretty much a computer - computers crash - it's a fact of life. The solution: become an expert at the Cam-Puter and make yourself indisposable.

And two words that will help the Pirates guys out, and I'm sure they are already ALL OVER IT: Block Batteries.
 
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