It quiet, I like it..

[Terry VerHaar]

Personally, I think the people who are adopting pessimistic outlooks because of this morning's "Bug" announcement are selling the RED folks short. I get the sense that they thrive on this stuff and a bug is, if anything, an excuse to rally the troops and have that much more fun squashing it. I am guessing that, with a good night's sleep, they have a new bounce in their step and are coming to work with a new sense of purpose.

Let's not forget that Jim has said this bug has been around for a couple months. And yet many other parts of the program are still moving forward. They are in the Tattoo stage. They are proactively looking for a new Scarlet manufacturer. Many of the modules and components will be moving ahead during this period and are that much more likely to be available when Epic is released.

Jim was wise enough to give himself some "time off" to recover his health and I am confident he is now even wiser about protecting it. Who knows? Maybe he has even learned to rely on his highly capable team just a little more , too. IMHO, you can't write this year off just yet. These guys are just too frigging capable and motivated. You gotta love that!

 

[Michael Hastings]

Sorry Michael, it doesn't usually work that way. And given Jim's post this morning, I feel my guess is gaining momentum.

Damn

Gotta agree with that.

Let's not forget that Jim has said this bug has been around for a couple months.

This is what bothers me a little bit because I have been telling people that I thought Red must be close because I didn't think they would have asked for a $5000 deposit (since that is a lot to ask on a completely unknown/unreliable timeline) if they weren't very confident that they would be shipping in the summer/august time frame. Obviously, if the bug has been known for a couple months that wasn't the case.

I'm not saying I want to jump ship, or get my deposit back or anything. But it is getting harder to keep on a smiley face when talking about epic and scarlet with all of the other things happening. :-(

On a personal note I'm glad to hear Jim has his health issues under control and wish him the best.

Ps
I'm also curious as to whether the bugs are on the motion or the stills side. I always thought that the whole dsmc thing - particularly lens control, autofocus, and flash/ exoosure modes - might hold the cine side back. I don't know if I it is possible to get the cine side working and unlock the still part when it is ready - but it would make sense to me to go ahead and release when cinema modes are ready and wait on stills for however long it takes. Particularly when an 18 mp t2i is only $799.00 and makes a great BTS/continuity cam.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

snip...

This is what bothers me a little bit because I have been telling people that I thought Red must be close because I didn't think they would have asked for a $5000 deposit (since that is a lot to ask on a completely unknown/unreliable timeline) if they weren't very confident that they would be shipping in the summer/august time frame. Obviously, if the bug has been known for a couple months that wasn't the case.

...

We should keep in mind that any time a bug such as this appears, one usually has no idea as to how long it will take to fix. Hindsight is 20/20 and perhaps if Jim and company had known it wouldn't be fixed as of Jun 14th, they may have acted differently. But they didn't know and, at the time, hoped and expected that they could squash it quickly. I am sure they still feel that way. Jim said they might fix it quickly... or not. None of us can know the future (duh-to state the obvious) :001_huh: and we can only do the best we can in anticipating it in the moment. Should RED behave today as if the bug will take 6 months to fix? Or should they act prudently based on what they know? And it is my belief that no one knows more about the situation than they do. So, I am going to trust that they will do what they believe is best.

DISCLAIMER: I am not eligible for any Epic and so I don't actually have any cash tied up. It is probably easier for me to be objective and detached since my money isn't on the line. I feel for those of you who want to start earning their investment back with their Epic. :thumbsup:

 

[michael zaletel]

I haven't modified my shipping date predictions.

-michael

 

[Robert Frank]

I feel for those of you who want to start earning their investment back with their Epic. :thumbsup:

I went for Stage 3 because of the projected Stage 2 delivery mentioned during the Stage 2 deposit phase.

I was thinking that I may not be able to hold out for the Epic-X, but I bet if I sell my R1 the next day Epics will ship.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Gotta agree with that.



This is what bothers me a little bit because I have been telling people that I thought Red must be close because I didn't think they would have asked for a $5000 deposit (since that is a lot to ask on a completely unknown/unreliable timeline) if they weren't very confident that they would be shipping in the summer/august time frame. Obviously, if the bug has been known for a couple months that wasn't the case.

I'm not saying I want to jump ship, or get my deposit back or anything. But it is getting harder to keep on a smiley face when talking about epic and scarlet with all of the other things happening. :-(

On a personal note I'm glad to hear Jim has his health issues under control and wish him the best.

Ps
I'm also curious as to whether the bugs are on the motion or the stills side. I always thought that the whole dsmc thing - particularly lens control, autofocus, and flash/ exoosure modes - might hold the cine side back. I don't know if I it is possible to get the cine side working and unlock the still part when it is ready - but it would make sense to me to go ahead and release when cinema modes are ready and wait on stills for however long it takes. Particularly when an 18 mp t2i is only $799.00 and makes a great BTS/continuity cam.

Michael,

I know you build stuff, I have dabbled.. I can honestly tell you I have no concept of the complexity of the Epic. I would have to guess it's frightening.

Be glad you put down a deposit. I'm going to make a frightening prediction:

It is not an impossibility that we could see Epic's pricing go up.

Jim will protect the RED customers, but if things get really out of control, Jim will have to cover for it.

Just a guess... But still.... There could be a vaild reason everyone else is so expensive.

Jay

 

[Michael Hastings]

Michael,

I know you build stuff, I have dabbled.. I can honestly tell you I have no concept of the complexity of the Epic. I would have to guess it's frightening.

Be glad you put down a deposit. I'm going to make a frightening prediction:

It is not an impossibility that we could see Epic's pricing go up.

Jim will protect the RED customers, but if things get really out of control, Jim will have to cover for it.

Just a guess... But still.... There could be a vaild reason everyone else is so expensive.

Jay

I agree, I'm confident that the resolutions, frame rates, etc. will make Epic a great bargain so I'll hang in there as long as it takes. As far as timing - you know I wanted it last year!

I think my biggest point is that Epic's great utility and bang for buck is as a video/cinema camera and if tabling the stills allows quicker delivery with stills to come later it would be fine for most of us. In other words I don't think anybody is spending $28K for the 5K stills portion when that is available for $800 in an even smaller package - but they are happy to pay $28K for a 120fps 5K camera. Doesn't mean I don't want it eventually - it will be nice to have one camera to carry that does it all - but it isn't essential.

And I totally agree that it is nice that RED has done very well for a couple years AND is backed by a deep pockets owner since I am sure Jim will come through for us early adopters whatever it takes - where a shallower pockets small company might have to just bail out.

 

[joshua csehak]

The ol' Better/Faster/Cheaper -- pick two. Canon went with 2 and 3, Arri went with 1 and 2, and Red's going with 1 and 3. (I like Red's choice. I don't mind waiting.)

 

[Terry VerHaar]

The ol' Better/Faster/Cheaper -- pick two. Canon went with 2 and 3, Arri went with 1 and 2, and Red's going with 1 and 3. (I like Red's choice. I don't mind waiting.)

This begs one question I am curious about... is Arri actually shipping Alexa yet? I have always wondered if they were going to be any more "on time" than RED.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Good question Terry..
Jay

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

two weeks

two weeks

from good source

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Toyota syndrome

Toyota syndrome

This is all so called Toyota complex or Toyota syndrome when the things

get out of (computer) control and not even Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak can't get help with that Toyota syndrome.

It's about Epic BUG.

And also I would say a sort of Vuvuzelas effect

when in Johannesburg, Azania (South Africa) even North Korea can score one goal to Brazil.

 

[joshua csehak]

This is all so called Toyota complex or Toyota syndrome when the things

get out of (computer) control and not even Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak can't get help with that Toyota syndrome.

You mean Steve Jobs? Woz has been out of Apple forever. Though I've always thought, if he and Jobs had half and half control, Apple would be freaking AWESOME. Probably less profitable, but easily 10 times the awesome.

Then again, Woz does play Segway polo. So maybe, not so much.

Then again, Segway polo does look kinda fun...

 

[Aaron Newsome]

This begs one question I am curious about... is Arri actually shipping Alexa yet? I have always wondered if they were going to be any more "on time" than RED.

They're shipping out studio photos and press releases by the truckload. That has to count for something. Add to that, their insiders have been blogging and posting teasers like crazy. That's almost as good as having a camera in hand.

Real life cameras can't be too far off. They may already be in the hands of people who don't have the Internet.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

You mean Steve Jobs? Woz has been out of Apple forever. Though I've always thought, if he and Jobs had half and half control, Apple would be freaking AWESOME. Probably less profitable, but easily 10 times the awesome.

Then again, Woz does play Segway polo. So maybe, not so much.

Then again, Segway polo does look kinda fun...

I think (but I am by no means sure) that Wozniak was brought in to consult on the Toyota acceleration "bug." As much respect as I have for Steve Jobs, I don't think I'd be bringing him on to my engineering team!