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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED - DSLRs and where the market is heading.

DSLR's are popular given the current economic time but because they are so popular they would be to some degree helping to do the whole "push to digital" thing. With that being said, it would be to a large degree easier for RED to now come in because when you think about it, Sony etc. are all happy with 1080p and don't see the need for 2K at present, to put that in a prosumer item would be kind of strange don't you agree?
RED has created a PROFESIONAL item at a level in which high end consumers/prosumer (indie crowd) have a potential to gain access to an item that leaves the competition in the dust, to a large degree though it can be said that no one will care anyhow because of the economy.

In the rentals market, given the price of DSLRs versus Scarlet, one could easily go head to head to some degree, the premium paid is the premium for quality that is unheard of and further more for the ability to have some seriously amazing low light capabilities and a rig that has so many potentials.

EPIC is a different case since that isn't exactly aimed at DSLRs so that's a whole other ball game.

Still though, RED has hit a niche yes. Yet REDs niche will grow to a general DSLR market once they are out in the wild.

Time will tell but I'm riding the RED wave, I think the price for having the "future" to some degree in your hands today rather then paying for an upgrade of 1080p to 2K in the future is worth going with RED.
 
I have the fortune to work with pro dps and for the most part they don't want to shoot with a still cameras, they want a movie camera (35mm, Red, Alexa...) to make their work at the best. About the workflow :in fcp you have to transcode the dslr files to prores as you would do it with r3d files (for the offline) so I don't see this workflow advantage compared to Red especially with build 30 that allows to shoot in redcolor and to visualize in post in the same color space. I just finished to edit a job intercuted with red and canon and there was a HUGE difference, canon files were poor compared to r3d files. Beside that I can undestand dslr video capacity can be interesting for small productions and film students.
 
DSLR's are popular in that price bracket because at the moment
there is no other option in that price bracket.
 
I was curious and a little impatient so I bought a GH1. Returned it within the 15-day return period. Totally unsuitable for what I need, which is a videocamera with a run and gun form factor that also shoots pro quality video.

I think Panasonic has taken note of both these factors and that's why it's trying out the AG-AF100. It's the evolution of the DSLR into a true video camera, and I think it is shaping up as the real competition for Scarlet fixed, cinema and possibly S35. For an estimated price of $6,000 (camera, no lens) they should be able to add faster processors, professional sound, etc. and I've always liked almost everything about Panasonic's UI, both physical and electronic.

Moreover, Panny has new things going on in the sensor and firmware world too. Photographers anticipating the next update to the GF1 were excited when a Panasonic engineer described a new sensor to a gathering of engineers last February. It takes an extended exposure of the green pixels and processes the signals to extend dynamic range. He mentioned specifically its uses for video. The prototype was about 2/3" but could obviously be scaled up (search for "Panasonic GH2 sensor" for more info since I don't think I can post a link to another forum). Panasonic would be wise to make this sensor/processor standard as one of the major shortcomings of the 4/3 format for stills as well as video has been the limited DR. They would be crazy not to use it in their inaugural 4/3 videocamera.

Another plus: inexpensive adapters allow use of classic Leica, Nikon and other glass, and the 2x crop factor is not too ridiculous. Olympus makes two standard 4/3 f2 zooms that are incredible.

Big minus: Apparently the AG-AF100 has HDSDI output, but it will be 4:2:0 This may be another case of Panasonic crippling their gear in order to sell higher end products. But that also means they could always make a corporate/marketing decision to make it 4:2:2 instead. After all, it is being released by their pro division.
Another minus: Panny's M4/3 AF lenses leave a lot to be desired, though most do have image stabilization in the lens.
Possible minus: You might say artifacts from pixel binning or whatever are a minus, but let's wait and see. The extra $1,000's over the price of a GH/GF/1/2 are paying for something more than form factor.

C'mon Scarlet, hurry up! While 4:4:4 raw and 3K are great to have, we don't all need that level of overkill for 1080p product- especially wannabee Scarlet fixed shooters like me. Now if you say the fixed will also be weatherproofed that might make me wait. You say it has to breathe? So does a Humvee, and it can operate up to its eyeballs in water.
 
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Steve,

To bad you took your GH1 back, it's a new camera now with the Tester13 firmware high bit rate hack, it's also a 4:2:2 cam now.
 
The HDSDI standard does not include 4:2:0 color encoding, only several flavors of 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 depending on data rate. The AF100 may record 4:2:0 AVCHD to the cards, but the HDSDI live output will have to be 4:2:2 at least.
I really like the 4/3 format, but the primary interest for me with Scarlet is raw recording and the higher resolution acquisition. Not what everyone needs for sure, but I feel it is essential for moving the quality of digital acquisition closer to film like aesthetics.
 
Chip G said:
Steve,

To bad you took your GH1 back, it's a new camera now with the Tester13 firmware high bit rate hack, it's also a 4:2:2 cam now.
Click to expand...

Has anyone posted clips with the new software hack yet?
 
There are no Scarlet comparisons, since Scarlet isn't yet public. And, as long as people choose to use DSLR's, or anything else for that matter, comparisons will be made. And comparisons don't have to be based on hollow biasses, flimsy hearsay, and poor testing procedures. etc.. Comparisons can be useful, instructive ...
Compare, and then buy a Scarlet ( :
 
Bill Anderson said:
There are no Scarlet comparisons, since Scarlet isn't yet public. And, as long as people choose to use DSLR's, or anything else for that matter, comparisons will be made. And comparisons don't have to be based on hollow biasses, flimsy hearsay, and poor testing procedures. etc.. Comparisons can be useful, instructive ...
Compare, and then buy a Scarlet ( :
Click to expand...


Just checking, thanks.
 
David Rasberry said:
Has anyone posted clips with the new software hack yet?
Click to expand...

Yes, go over to dvxuser and there is a GH1 Hacked section now, last night I typed in 'GH1 hack' on Vimeo and it had some clips. Also I'm sure the same goes for youtube, the vimeo stuff you can download the source file and play it on your HD tv, that's when you'll really be surprised from the improvements. Remember the results vary depending on the bit rate the clips were shot in.

For what I'm seeing from a $600 camera (body only) I'm floored.

Also, my waiting time for Scarlet has expired. I will not be getting one.

Chip
 
The GH1 hack definitely squeezes out extra mileage out of the camera. But codec can be broken depending on the shot. There would need to be some trepidation about using the camera with hack on a commercial shoot.

But otherwise very fun stuff to watch and be a part.
 
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Elsie N said:
I think it is important to note that when some say the DSLRs are being chosen over RED cameras, even when the price is bid lower than the DSLR... the person pitching the DSLR may be the tipping factor. Obviously the salesperson is an important part of the decision when the customer is un-initiated.
Click to expand...

Mmm... I have talked people out of shooting the 7D and using RED instead. It's pretty easy because I have both cameras so I don't really have any particular care for what we shoot. For most narrative RED is just a better camera. I'm on the list for an EPIC. There's a reason for that. I have a lot of faith in the guys at RED to stay ahead of the curve. I sometimes think some of their pricing may need to drop.

The 7D is pretty ugly at 1080P. But man, there's one of me saying that for 100 other guys saying "wow! looks awesome!!". That is what it is out there.

But Canon really could do something amazing with their next set of cameras and get even my attention. If they get raw going on the 7D chip with no line skipping it'll be a RED and probably have more dynamic range given what their stills do. That'll be scary.

I kinda wonder if the whole 2/3" Scarlet is something that should just turn into s35 Scarlet. If Canon is really bringing a 7D chip to a movie camera for under $10k then the game is on for s35mm.

And keep shrinking EPIC if you can!!! :-)
 
On the upside, I would like to thank Canon for the rescue from the 35mm adapters. It wasn't pretty nor sexy. :biggrinjester:
 
MichaelHalsell said:
The GH1 hack definitely squeezes out extra mileage out of the camera. But codec can be broken depending on the shot. There would need to be some trepidation about using the camera with hack on a commercial shoot.

But otherwise very fun stuff to be watch and be a part.
Click to expand...

Exactly. As far as I'm concerned the hack makes it a cooler toy and shows some of the potential of the sensor and the format. For me the form factor alone is a deal-breaker anyway. And I'd worry about permanent damage to the camera from making it process data at a rate for which it wasn't designed.

David: Thanks for the clarification on the HDSDI out. My info came from a not-so-expert, not-so-reliable source.

I still think Scarlet Fixed has a place (in my hands), though I am starting to wonder about Scarlet Cinema. Not a lot of lenses on the wide to normal end unless you invest in mini-primes. And those won't be usable on anything else worthwhile that I can think of. Hmm, own a fixed, keep the 35mm lenses I have, and rent an s35 if needed. Maybe that's the ticket.
 
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