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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ClipFinder/FCP/CS5 Crazies With XML. Please help.

Michael Romano

Michael Romano

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So in my quest to find an improvement over FCP, I landed on the doorstep of Premier Pro CS5. My ultimate goal is to input metadata into Clipfinder and have it available to either FCP or PPCS5 editors. This is important so that I can service various clients without having to change the initial workflow at all. Great and all, but here is what's driving me mad:

CLIPFINDER
Import clips.
Apply Metadata (Shot/Scene/Take/Good/Description/etc)
Send to FCP.

FCP
Clips are now in the session.
NOTE - The clips are QT camera proxies, not R3D files.
Select clips.
Export XML V5 (or V4, both have same issue) checking both options.

CLIPFINDER
Run conform on the FCP XML file we just made with the following settings:
Extract Clip name from <pathurl> tag
Replace clips with R3D (Adobe only)

PPCS5
Import XML
This is where it gets screwed up.

All the clips show up but:
Only clips without audio are linked. All others are offline.
When you try to relink them, it works, but you cannot hear any audio from the relinked clips.
It also does not show meters bouncing.

I found this inside the Clipfinder conformed XML, which still references QT proxies.
<file id="A011_C001_10246B_M"><name>A011_C001_10246B_M.mov</name>
So I did a find and replace on this data to repair it followed by a re-import. Didn't work. I guess this is just for the name of the clip, not its location.

I exported the same (jacked up PPCS5) session to XML to compare. There are def. differences in the whole structure.

PP used xml V4, not 5 as FCP defaults to. Fine, just select V4 when outputting.

PP creates its own masterclip ID's instead of just using the filename.
While this often doesn't matter, it sure does to people who have to edit this damn things, cough* cough*
Each clip is sequentially called masterclip-1, masterclip-2, masterclip-3, etc...

An excerpt:
<logginginfo>
<description>DESCRIPTION</description>
<scene>29</scene>
<shottake>1</shottake>
<lognote>LOG NOTE</lognote>
<good>FALSE</good>
</logginginfo>
It relates to my metadata from Clipfinder but the <good> code is not included when CS5 outputs XML. Not supported :(

None of this helps fix the main issue and leaves us with this:

1 - Clips without audio.
2 - No "Good" checkbox transfer

Any thoughts?
 
Michael Romano said:
So in my quest to find an improvement over FCP, I landed on the doorstep of Premier Pro CS5. My ultimate goal is to input metadata into Clipfinder and have it available to either FCP or PPCS5 editors. This is important so that I can service various clients without having to change the initial workflow at all. Great and all, but here is what's driving me mad:

CLIPFINDER
Import clips.
Apply Metadata (Shot/Scene/Take/Good/Description/etc)
Send to FCP.

FCP
Clips are now in the session.
NOTE - The clips are QT camera proxies, not R3D files.
Select clips.
Export XML V5 (or V4, both have same issue) checking both options.

CLIPFINDER
Run conform on the FCP XML file we just made with the following settings:
Extract Clip name from <pathurl> tag
Replace clips with R3D (Adobe only)

PPCS5
Import XML
This is where it gets screwed up.

All the clips show up but:
Only clips without audio are linked. All others are offline.
When you try to relink them, it works, but you cannot hear any audio from the relinked clips.
It also does not show meters bouncing.

I found this inside the Clipfinder conformed XML, which still references QT proxies.
<file id="A011_C001_10246B_M"><name>A011_C001_10246B_M.mov</name>
So I did a find and replace on this data to repair it followed by a re-import. Didn't work. I guess this is just for the name of the clip, not its location.

I exported the same (jacked up PPCS5) session to XML to compare. There are def. differences in the whole structure.

PP used xml V4, not 5 as FCP defaults to. Fine, just select V4 when outputting.

PP creates its own masterclip ID's instead of just using the filename.
While this often doesn't matter, it sure does to people who have to edit this damn things, cough* cough*
Each clip is sequentially called masterclip-1, masterclip-2, masterclip-3, etc...

An excerpt:
<logginginfo>
<description>DESCRIPTION</description>
<scene>29</scene>
<shottake>1</shottake>
<lognote>LOG NOTE</lognote>
<good>FALSE</good>
</logginginfo>
It relates to my metadata from Clipfinder but the <good> code is not included when CS5 outputs XML. Not supported :(

None of this helps fix the main issue and leaves us with this:

1 - Clips without audio.
2 - No "Good" checkbox transfer

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I am very aware of this issue... We have bug on this and am tracking it internally. I don't really have a good workaround for you yet.

Cheers

Dave
 
Thanks for the update Dave.

I really like where PP is headed, just a few things that need attention. Your presence on the boards goes a huge way with Adobe PR, there's nothing like inside help!

BTW, are you in San Diego? I seem to remember reading that on here somewhere...
 
Michael Romano said:
Thanks for the update Dave.

I really like where PP is headed, just a few things that need attention. Your presence on the boards goes a huge way with Adobe PR, there's nothing like inside help!

BTW, are you in San Diego? I seem to remember reading that on here somewhere...
Click to expand...

Yep I am in San Diego... I just had a brainstorm session with someone and we "might" have a solution for this problem... Stay tuned...

Cheers

Dave
 
David McGavran said:
I just had a brainstorm session with someone and we "might" have a solution for this problem... Stay tuned...
Click to expand...

Sounds great! I just moved to the UCSD area from Hawai'i, starting the hunt for connections in SD as we speak. Is Adobe based out of SD or is it just your team?

Hans-Georg Daun said:
Let me know if there is anything I can do in Clipfinder that would help.
Click to expand...

It seems (I may be speaking out of turn here) that the issue is in how PPCS5 interprets XML from FCP. Best I can tell, the XML coming from Clipfinder is compliant with FCP.

I did find some strangeness in the files:
Code: 
                             <metadata>
                                <storage>QuickTime</storage>
                                <key>ch.daun.ClipFinderApp.ClipGoodTake</key>
                                <size>1</size>
                                <type>UTF8</type>
                                <value>0</value>
                            </metadata>
Couldn't that same information be represented in this method?
Code: 
                        <logginginfo>
                            <scene>29</scene>
                            <shottake></shottake>
                            <lognote></lognote>
                            <good>FALSE</good>
                        </logginginfo>
That might mitigate complications in code going on to other softwares such as PP. I have no understanding of how the "Send To FCP" mechanism functions so correct me if it is integral to that feature.

I'm sure you guys are onto this but I found it very useful in figuring out what the **hell** is going on in XML! I recommend it to people interested in what we're talking about in this thread.

http://developer.apple.com/appleapplications/download/fcpxmldtds5.dmg

Thanks for the open ears, I was worried nobody was onto this!

BTW - Hans, I'm still available to Skype about Clipfinder features this week if you've got the time.
 
Well, yes, but Clipfinder could become a central hub for going back and forth, including metadata or transporting looks from camera or RCX into PPro's RED import.
 
Michael Romano said:
I did find some strangeness in the files:
Code: 
                             <metadata>
                                <storage>QuickTime</storage>
                                <key>ch.daun.ClipFinderApp.ClipGoodTake</key>
                                <size>1</size>
                                <type>UTF8</type>
                                <value>0</value>
                            </metadata>
Couldn't that same information be represented in this method?
Code: 
                        <logginginfo>
                            <scene>29</scene>
                            <shottake></shottake>
                            <lognote></lognote>
                            <good>FALSE</good>
                        </logginginfo>
That might mitigate complications in code going on to other softwares such as PP. I have no understanding of how the "Send To FCP" mechanism functions so correct me if it is integral to that feature.
Click to expand...

Your first excerpt shows the metadata embedded in each clip rendered in Clipfinder.

You can also let Clipfinder put the metadata into FCP's fields (clipcommenta, ..., scene, shottake...) by setting up the mapping between your custom fields and FCP's fields in Clipfinder's preferences and using "send to FCP".

Cheers,
Hans
 
WORK AROUND!

I have been having issues dancing between the two as well.

Started editing red MX feature in FCP wanted to go to premiere for obvious reasons, but was already in 15 min in the FCP edit.

Solution:

Export your FCP XML normally> open in dreamweaver>

find and replace (ctrl+F) all ProRez or Proxy extensions (proxies in my case) like so:

_M.MOV
change to
.R3D

Click replace all. save.

SIDE NOTE: when moving to PC oddly it wanted me to still find the files because FCP failed to put a _001.R3D clip extension on all the clips so I had to repeat the process over again this time:

.R3D
change to
_001.R3D

It is likely that also when you are moving to the new system it won't have the same drive path name so do the same for the file path like so:

(yours will be different)
file://localhost/Volumes/G-RAID%201
to
file://localhost/D%3a

only change the forward part. The files remain the same one wrong / and it wont work.

You'll also do this for sound as well. Now import the XML file to CS5.

Lastly; in my case the files still appeared offiline. (even though it didn't ask for the files) This part is easy. On each R3D file in the bin right click and press Link Media...

It should show you the file without browsing for it. Double click it>repeat. I had 96 files.

Also the project settings might be off resulting in a magnafication of your footage. To fix simply create a new 4K sequence and cut and paste your timeline. Whala!

This whole process took me about 30-40 min, but it works and works well.

Happy editing! -Matt
 
avatuar said:
Double click it>repeat. I had 96 files.
Click to expand...

While this might work, its not really a fix. I have projects with 5k+ clips in them and in a production environment there often isn't time for that sort of workflow. It also doesn't address the quite perplexing audio issue.

BTW - Dave, check your PM's!
 
I'm editing a 30 day, 4 Terabyte feature film w/ 4 tracks of Iso audio. This is your best and fastest bet. I skip clip finder on the way back to CS5 and go right to dreamweaver before I get there. If you find and replace right in dreamweaver... no problemo. I figure I use about 100 clips per 10 min of footage... Sux, but it gets it done.
 
When you say ISO audio, do mean it is embedded within the R3D or synced externally? I was experiencing a distinct issues with no sound from the R3D files.
 
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