Zacuto camera shootout 2010 EP3: Surprising insights on 4K and Raw

[Brian Timmons]

The new Zacuto 2010 "betacam" shootout is up.

http://www.zacuto.com/shootout

Interesting for it's the mix of relatively well thought out tests and observations and somewhat frustrating for it's occasional glaring omissions technically and in it's commentary. I appreciate the effort put into them though as I'm sure it's not an easy task to do this.

There is actually a nice (for web video at least) comparison between film scanned at 4K and 2K that does make a case for the advantages of 4K image acquisition.

There's also a rather hopeful section devoted to the great "potential" of RAW video image capture in DSLR style cameras.

It was nearly euphoric in it's optimism yet I was somewhat surprised how the Scarlet wasn't mentioned or even hinted at since that camera in particular seemed to fit many of the requested features stated by the shootout participants.

For such a tiny camera, Scarlet felt like the proverbial "elephant in the room".

Whatever the case these shootout videos despite some shortcomings are pretty entertaining (at times quite intriguing) for what they are. I can only imagine what a 2011 shootout may look like.

Brian Timmons
britim-media

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

Could you elaborate on those "glaring omissions"?

I just wish someone could put as much effort into other "shootout" style series involving other cameras.

 

[Brian Timmons]

The "glaring omission" statement was related mainly to the Scarlet factor when discussing the potential future of these cameras.

I think some aspects of the tests play to the strengths or don't emphasize the potential issues in the DSLRs tested.

For example, there is limited movement in these test shots that could test for rolling shutter.

We hear that the images are hard to work with in color correction but a visual example would illustrate this better.

I don't want to get too deep in debate as I can already see how this thread can go and I really don't want to go there.

My biggest point for this thread is that I'm surprised with some of the comments on 4K and Raw as I wasn't expecting that in this Shootout series. Plus it's interesting how many stated desired features for a future camera is already in the current design for the Scarlet which is arguably in the price range of these cameras.

Brian Timmons
britim-media

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

Because they only briefly mention red from time to time I'd assume that they are either not interested in scarlet for whatever reason or it was simply ignored to keep focus in the series.

 

[Peter Moretti]

The D3s looked amazing in low light. What was mentioned but not emphasized is how little color lattitude the DSLRs give you in post.

I was actually pretty amazed by some of the comments by the professionals. The F900 and all of its progeny and competitors have been making digital look darn close to film for years. And many of the people in the auditorium had no clue about RAW and that it's already here today.

If you have a talented Flame operator, a top end colorist and experts every step of the way, you can make HDV footage look very good and pull a workable key from it. What we are seeing the most is the talent of the operators.

All that said, the effort and production value was simply amazing. This was a great and very impressive effort. I even loved the titles.

Thank you very much Zacuto.

 

[David Rasberry]

Scarlet isn't out yet. There were however many comments about higher than 1080p acquisition and raw acquisition as the ultimate goal.
Guess what, Red is already there. Even with 2/3" Scarlet.:devil:

Keep in mind, Zacuto wants to sell you their DSLR rigs and accessories. There is a lot bigger market for DSLR gear than high end production gear.

There are a few more generations of Moore's law increases in processing power and reductions in power consumption and heat output before it will be possible to fit FF35 full resolution full motion raw into a DSLR size and weight form factor. I couldn't find data for power consumption on the Canons, but the GH-1 specs say 300-320 raw frames on a single battery charge, 10 seconds of video. H.264 is much more power and processing efficient.

Prosumer video cameras consume about 12 watts, Epic reportedly consumes 60 watts.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

It's a pure advertising (Zacuto gear) and all "guys and gals" had a lot of fun to be involved in it.

They didn't say anything new that we don't know it from before...

The best part of the shaw were those intentional music parts :laugh: :violin:

 

[Emanuel A.]

The new Zacuto 2010 "betacam" shootout is up. (...)

"Betacam" -- this has been one of the most funny things I've ever read over here :smilielol5: even if it does often seem the 7D dogma is not truly a serious dogma anymore... LOL

 

[PatC]

I was somewhat surprised how the Scarlet wasn't mentioned or even hinted at since that camera in particular seemed to fit many of the requested features stated by the shootout participants.

I think it's because they are using cameras that are available today. Everyone knows Scarlet is really going to shake things up. Especially these guys.

 

[Subhadip Sen]

A better question is - why weren't the $1k camcorders not mentioned? The likes of Panasonic TM700 and Canon HF S21? Those are higher resolution devices with none of the terrible drawbacks of DSLRs. The DSLRs do have better light sensitivity and shallow depth of field, to their credit.

 

[James Brundige]

Great test, and a very clever marketing tool. They claimed to have "removed themselves" from the test to be impartial, but the bias is very clear - to prove that DSLRs are a pretty good alternative to film.

Remember Zacuto sells DSLR cinema accessories, some of which I use myself. So they are quite vested in promoting these, as is Shane Hurlbut who is featured in part 3. (He sells his own line of DSLR cinema stuff).

A really unbiased test would have included Red, but that is not Zacuto's primary market. The 2K 4K comparison, and comments about RAW workflow, suggest it would have shined.

 

[Paul Nordin]

Guess what, Red is already there. Even with 2/3" Scarlet.:devil:

ummm...no its not there yet. Its planned to be there. But still an indetermined time away from being "there".

unfortunately!

 

[Chris Pickle]

So people are upset that a particular camera shoot-out didn't include a Red camera that's not yet released or even a single frame of footage shown?

I'm a fan of Red, but ....

 

[Sami S]

A really unbiased test would have included Red, but that is not Zacuto's primary market. The 2K 4K comparison, and comments about RAW workflow, suggest it would have shined.

Why do you suggest that an unbiased test would have included a Red? How is it pertinent to the shootout that is titled Film vs. DSLR?

 

[Brian Timmons]

Why do you suggest that an unbiased test would have included a Red? How is it pertinent to the shootout that is titled Film vs. DSLR?

This brings up an issue that I think would improve future shootouts by Zacuto or whoever.

A limitation of this shootout is that it kind of treated the DSLRs as if it existed in it's own vacuum compared to other digital formats. It was nice that they had film as a base of comparison but it would have perhaps been more useful if other setups like RED, or cams like the EX1 & 3, both low and mid end Panasonic P2, were put in for comparison. These are cameras that DSLRs are commonly used in conjunction with.

This would have been userful to see at least for a segment.

I'm actually curious to see how these DSLR cameras compare to cameras outfitted with 35mm adapters.

Remember that all of these different cameras and formats are at times used on a shoot together sometimes to shoot the same scene (David Mullen's recent pilot comes to mind) so I do believe this is a useful strategy.

In all I thought it was informative.

For the future I would suggest testing that a little more rigorous (like in image grading) and a bit more comprehensive in comparing and contrasting with other camera platforms.

Brian Timmons
britim-media

 

[Brian Timmons]

So people are upset that a particular camera shoot-out didn't include a Red camera that's not yet released or even a single frame of footage shown?

I'm a fan of Red, but ....

I myself wasn't referring to the tests as it concerned Scarlet.

The development of RAW in these cameras was looked at as a dream feature that might be a few years down road. I found it odd that Scarlet was never mentioned since it's been publicly stated for a while that the camera was built to fulfill this feature among other things and does not seem to be a few years down the road although that's "subject to change". :laugh:

Whatever the case, I imagine shootout 2011 should be interesting.

Brian Timmons
britim-media

 

[Sean Rawls]

I liked seeing the film scan resolution comparisons. I was impressed with how good the 5D/7D looked in some of the side by sides but clearly h.264 is not a proper acquisition format.

This entire video seemed like an amazing advertisement for Red. "Imagine if we have RAW in these cameras!!?!?!" Believe it or not this already exists! But, not for 2,500. There are trade offs to every camera system.

 

[Chris Pickle]

I myself wasn't referring to the tests as it concerned Scarlet.

The development of RAW in these cameras was looked at as a dream feature that might be a few years down road. I found it odd that Scarlet was never mentioned since it's been publicly stated for a while that the camera was built to fulfill this feature among other things and does not seem to be a few years down the road although that's "subject to change". :laugh:

Whatever the case, I imagine shootout 2011 should be interesting.

Brian Timmons
britim-media

I think the eventual Scarlet will trounce the DSLRs in most uses, but I do think the DSLRs are in a "vacuum". They really represent an oddity in many ways--a complete outlier, to use a recently resurrected word. I don't think you can really compare a DSLR to a Scarlet.

The DSLRs have absolutely gorgeous images, with beautiful possibilities for film-like DOF, and wicked low-light capabilities. Everything an indie filmmaker wants. But they also have a terribly handicapped codec. It's painfully laughable and it taunts us. It's like the old saying; you can have 2 of the 3. Good, Fast, or Cheap. But not all 3.

Because of their oddness, I think they are in a class by themselves. Not necessarily a great class, but not terrible either--just unique. If their codec was just a little-less-horrible, it'd be very cool!

 

[Oliver Peters]

Everyone seems to be missing some important facts. First off, sure, it's a lot of Zacuto promotion. It's on their website and they did the production. Any test like this will have some bias, simply through selection. They stated from the very beginning that this was a test to compare HDSLRs - nothing more, nothing less. Film was included as the "control".

Second, they already did a shootout over a year ago that compared various digital video cameras against film, including a Red One.

Third, Scarlet doesn't exist yet. Until shipping cameras are on the market, no one knows what the real deliverable specs will be. Part of the mantra. Remember?

For the moment, HDSLRs are a hot item and they are trying to capitalize on that, as are many others.

- Oliver

 

[michael zaletel]

---whatever.

-michael zaletel