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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What's a proper bid for a corporate video?

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Micah Kovacs

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A colleague and I just got an offer to shoot a corporate video -- two 20-minute segments for an eye surgery center. They currently have a "production company" lined up and they want us to place a counter bid.

Having come from the world of narrative films, we have no idea what the bid should be. We don't even have a figure to start with!

The show would be a 60-minutes type production, we would produce, shoot, direct, and edit it ourselves. We would need to rent a camera but we have everything else (lights, sound equipment).

What do you think we should bid? And what do you think a professional "production company" would be bidding?

Thanks in advance for your help and advice!
 
Micah Kovacs said:
A colleague and I just got an offer to shoot a corporate video -- two 20-minute segments for an eye surgery center. They currently have a "production company" lined up and they want us to place a counter bid.

Having come from the world of narrative films, we have no idea what the bid should be. We don't even have a figure to start with!

The show would be a 60-minutes type production, we would produce, shoot, direct, and edit it ourselves. We would need to rent a camera but we have everything else (lights, sound equipment).

What do you think we should bid? And what do you think a professional "production company" would be bidding?

Thanks in advance for your help and advice!
Click to expand...

You have a lot of competitive research in your future. Call your local competition and ask them what their rates are for a service. Have a look at their reel. Note not just the quality but also the amount of experience.

Once you have a good notion what your competition is charging, then do a budget for several small projects. A 6 minute "film school" project, a 1/2 hour sitcom, an hour drama and a low end feature. Heck you can probably pull some out of your filing cabinet.

What you want out of these budgets is an idea of the total man hours, crew and staff positions, and an idea of what standards you hit.

Now some simple arithmetic and you have a reasonable estimate of the average number of man hours you need per minute of finished product.

Now by referring to the "$xxxx per finished minute" numbers people share, you can sort of evaluate your ability to deliver value per hour of service.

If you think it takes 20 hours to deliver a finished minute at the standards typical of your local community, and competition is charging $100 per hour or $1500 per finished minute, well that means they are billing about 15 hours... you have to price $75 per hour to be competitive on project bids.

You are also working slower than average so time to find ways to step it up!

On the other hand, if you can deliver a finished minute in 5 hours in the same situation above, then maybe $300 per hour is justified. Just remember if that's what you are going to charge you have to maintain high standards and a breakneck pace of production.

You may also be able to build your price up a bit if you can do something that no one else local can do. If you are the only RED users in town, that's a good thing. Then again, maybe you have the only Alexa... you get the notion.

Remember you aren't necessarily competing with me or guys in LA... you are competing locally.
 
Micah Kovacs said:
What do you think we should bid? And what do you think a professional "production company" would be bidding?
Click to expand...

What they bid isn't important. What you can do it for, is what's important.

If they are bidding lower than you can afford to do it for then it's their loss, or they're more efficient/have lower standards.

Figure out what it would cost *you* to do it at a level of quality that would satisfy your own standards and the client's expectations. First step would be to determine what the client expects. If they want Ken Burns production values your bid is going to be pretty different than if they want Used Car ad.
 
Very difficult because the client often doesn't understand the benefit of superior experience and equipment.

The other "production company" could be a 19 year old with a 5D MKII and they won't realize how much trouble they are in until it's too late.

They might see his shallow DOF showreel of some pretty flowers in the garden and be impressed.

All you can do is give them as much information as you can about the care and process you will take for their project and hope they appreciate the value.
 
Actually bid depends on what clients want and what's in the budget and even 60 minutes are quite and there will be a ton of editing unless you have very long shots. According to me $1000 will be fine for 1 minute.
 
Thomas Pohl said:
- First you should ask yourself how much you want to earn per hour
- Then calculate (honestly to yourself) how long you would need
- Ad external costs (hiring camera, lightning, cars, etc)
- Summarize.
Click to expand...

I get asked this kind of question a lot for a variety of entertainment things and ESPECIALLY if there is anyone else out there who can do the work - Thomas's simple suggestion is the answer because.... that saves you from getting worked over and if you get it, you get paid what you feel is fair.

If you are turning down work to do his work - then you're in the realm of opportunity cost and that's when you say to yourself "boy, if I take that job, I don't get to celebrate my birthday or go away for the weekend, I'd better up bid it to make it worth it." If they start paying that up bid, then you know you are offering something that others can't deliver and that's when you can start working in more profit margins.
 
Isn't it depending on what's needed for the job? What is needed to make it?

My corporate films have been way over the max $2000/min quote you guys have been talking about, but they also needed a lot of toys.

From my side it starts with a treatment and a budget based on what we believe we need, to make that treatment. If they like the treatment the fight for the budget starts and the more persuasive you are, the closer to that number you get?
 
The right bid is the one that gets you the job and pays everyone for their time, and whatever gear is required to achieve the plan. It's simple really. ;-) Seriously though, if you don't understand that you shouldn't be in business for yourself. McD's is always hiring, and you can do your due diligence between burgers.

The reason you were asked to bid is likely they see some talent in a person who is inexperienced in business and may not have the confidence to ask for what they are worth. And they are right, at least on one count. If you don't know the market you intend to work in, there is no way to understand your place in it. It's a shrewd plan to get a deal.
 
You have to start by determining what the finished program will be. What is its purpose? Who will see it? Where will it be shot? What talent, equipment, locations, etc. will be needed? Are there extensive graphics involved?
It is impossible to accurately bid an unknown. Do they even have scripts or detailed treatments for the shows at this point?
Do they have something similar they have done in the past that they can show you for an example?
 
I'm pretty sure the per minute figures suggested here are their averages, but should never be used as an actual bid. Even within a category, jobs vary too much for too many reasons; just to suggest a few:
1. The nature of the location; distance? Difficult or lengthy load-in/out? Time of day restraints (the line operates only on Tuesday, but the talent is available only on Wednesday, and the delivery trucks roll only on every other Friday, except in March.) You get the idea.
2. Talent. Short pithy lines or ad lib interview. "Talented" talent, or halting, challenged VOC with long copy. Prompter and operator required?
3. Crew: Makeup? Wardrobe to be provided? How much pre-production time will be required? Tech scout (what do you mean there's no 120v power there???) "No, we can't carry the dolly up three flights of a winding staircase." Union location? Do you need union crew to carry the equipment across the threshold? How much does that cost?
4. For post; how much footage? How long to ingest? How many scenes? Extensive color grading? Animation? Graphics? Charts? And, most importantly, how many decision makers in the edit suite? Worse, how many levels of approval of finished piece; have you budgeted for revisions? How many? How long. Must be spelled out in the deal.

I find a modified AICP bid form is a good start and a memory jogger.

As to actual rates, you should base on the customary crew rates in the area and price yourselves accordingly; you'll earn more as directors and producers.

Finally, don't forget a contingency fee and markup. This rate varies, I've heard the range from zero (bad idea, you have to make a profit) to 22%. I'm sure some charge more.

I hope this helps you; good luck getting the job.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
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