Panasonic BT-LH2550 26" VS Sony LMD-2451W 24"

[King Cheung]

I am planning to purchase a professional monitor for color grading. For my price range, I am considering two models:
Panasonic BT-LH2550 26" VS Sony LMD-2451W 24"
Obviously, Panasonic has slightly bigger screen, and their price is even exactly the same in B&H.
But besides these points, anyone has any first-hand experiences that can share with me, please?
Thank in advance.
King

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I wouldn't buy or use either.

Lots of superior choices for the money out there and right now most major post houses in LA chose Panasonic Pro Plasma 11 or 12 Series and the new V25 Series for color critical work
will support 10 Bit via HDMI

50 to 65" Screen and as low as HALF the PRICE.

Check out this discussion here http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=591866#post591866

 

[King Cheung]

I wouldn't buy or use either.

Lots of superior choices for the money out there and right now most major post houses in LA chose Panasonic Pro Plasma 11 or 12 Series and the new V25 Series for color critical work
will support 10 Bit via HDMI

50 to 65" Screen and as low as HALF the PRICE.

Check out this discussion here http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=591866#post591866

Thanks a lot, Tim. Yes, BT-LH2550 is very expensive. I wonder why it is so expensive.
Thanks.

 

[Alex Hastings]

I wouldn't buy or use either.

Lots of superior choices for the money out there and right now most major post houses in LA chose Panasonic Pro Plasma 11 or 12 Series and the new V25 Series for color critical work
will support 10 Bit via HDMI

50 to 65" Screen and as low as HALF the PRICE.

Check out this discussion here http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=591866#post591866

We use a lot of BT-LH2550's and they are great monitors that emulate traditional broadcast CRT's. So if you need broadcast stuff like hv-delay, blue only, multiple HD-SDI imputs, 10bit through HD-SDI, Closed Capotioning, Waveform/Vetrascope on-screen, etc.., features found in traditional Broadcast CRT's, you would pick a broadcast LCD, like the BT-LH2550. The Pro-Plasma's have features tradition TV's do not have, but they no where close to the features that broadcast LCD's like the BT-LH2550 have. You might not need those features, but everyone in broadcast does.

As for critical color Pro-Plasmas are better, but they are a bit more fussy and I would never use them without cinespace or truelight. I know a lot of colorists who still use HD CRT's and have reluctantly found the Pro-Plasma's adequate, but only if you can calibrate it daily, if not hourly, and you grade with the Plasma using all the colors possible and use cinespace or truelight do full range to re709 or whatever LUTS or colorspace conversions you need.

From there you have to decide how much of your critical work falls below the 20/30% digital scale, how much grading you are doing in the dark grey to black levels, in those dark area's LCD's have a viewing angle problem that can hinder that work. Something the Pro-Plasmas do better, but if you are really working in the darks you need a Projector.

I have found the BT-LH2550 has enough features and is acurate enough to grade 90% of the stuff I see on TV, but maybe not cinema, where the black to greys can tell the story. Also a lot of broadcast people are finding SONY broadcast LCD's, very easy to calibrate and use, and that is more important to them than the dark grey, light black areas.

For rec709 broadcast work the BT-LH2550 is great, if I where doing a feature film work to be shown in a cinema, I would probably rent a projector. When ProPlasmas can do 10bit HDMI, and I see that it is really 10bit, and I invest in color calibration tools and truelight, then that might be the way to go.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

We use HD-SDI Dual Link Cards to get 10-Bit now. Moreover, we have found that after 100 to 150 hours, the Plasma's break in and hold calibration very well.

We only have to calibrate once a month.

We also use a very expensive Photo Research PR-655 for calibration and have none of the issues you claim (especially after a week of playing Blu Rays to break it in)

What we find more helpful is that since HOME TV's are getting larger every year from 32" to 42" to now 50" being the standard, the extra real estate is very welcome.

And , unless you only have yourself and maybe one client in the room, the off axis weakness of all LCD's is really frustrating. They suck for multiple clients in the room.

Horses for courses, people will have their preferences, but Alex please dont discount THE monitor adopted by high end post houses for color critical TV work. Chosen over both monitors listed here and monitors costing tens of thousands of dollars more. And since most TV work is 8-bit. Most dont even need the HD-SDI Module.

The defacto CRT replacement of choice (after extensive testing) was the PANNY PLASMA, not the LCD.

That all said, as Alex pointed out. The 25" LCD WILL work just fine if you dont mind limited of access viewing... but everything looks good on a small screen, we found the real estate was more important to our needs when doing creative color grading. Not to mention the image looks great from most any angle.

 

[King Cheung]

Based on the suggestions of Tim and Alex, it seems to me that Plasmas have better color accuracy than LCD if we calibrate very frequently.
Am I correct?
Thanks.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

My Take on all this is to get Flanders Scientifics 10 bit panel and a cheap large plasma of any sort.

http://www.shopfsi.com/product_p/lm-2470w.htm

I got a Samsung plasma at Best Buy for about $1000

I work to the FSI 10 bit panel via 3G SDI, and step back for a broad view and to check details on the large plasma via HDMI.

To be clear- the plasma is not for color accurate work, but it is fairly accurate anyway. Generally its better than an 8 bit LCD panel. If you have to use the plasma for grading, you have to calibrate VERY often. I don't know about hourly, but at least twice a day.

Also, the Panasonic plasmas everyone else is pointing at are much nicer than what I have. Better color rendition, but not really more stable.

My opinion is that those plasma displays are just fine for an edit suite, but I wouldn't use them for grading except as a last resort.

What I am recommending is a lot more than you were looking at spending, but for color correction I feel a 10 bit production/broadcast panel is a minimum standard.

To be clear, I don't own the FSI panel, but I had one in studio for about a week, and was very pleased. Its really competitive with CineTal and the Sony BVM L230, but for a fraction of the price.

 

[King Cheung]

My Take on all this is to get Flanders Scientifics 10 bit panel and a cheap large plasma of any sort.

http://www.shopfsi.com/product_p/lm-2470w.htm

I got a Samsung plasma at Best Buy for about $1000

I work to the FSI 10 bit panel via 3G SDI, and step back for a broad view and to check details on the large plasma via HDMI.

To be clear- the plasma is not for color accurate work, but it is fairly accurate anyway. Generally its better than an 8 bit LCD panel. If you have to use the plasma for grading, you have to calibrate VERY often. I don't know about hourly, but at least twice a day.

Also, the Panasonic plasmas everyone else is pointing at are much nicer than what I have. Better color rendition, but not really more stable.

My opinion is that those plasma displays are just fine for an edit suite, but I wouldn't use them for grading except as a last resort.

What I am recommending is a lot more than you were looking at spending, but for color correction I feel a 10 bit production/broadcast panel is a minimum standard.

To be clear, I don't own the FSI panel, but I had one in studio for about a week, and was very pleased. Its really competitive with CineTal and the Sony BVM L230, but for a fraction of the price.

I see, Alexander. It seems to me you are saying FSI is even better than Panny's model.

 

[King Cheung]

We use a lot of BT-LH2550's and they are great monitors that emulate traditional broadcast CRT's. So if you need broadcast stuff like hv-delay, blue only, multiple HD-SDI imputs, 10bit through HD-SDI, Closed Capotioning, Waveform/Vetrascope on-screen, etc.., features found in traditional Broadcast CRT's, you would pick a broadcast LCD, like the BT-LH2550. The Pro-Plasma's have features tradition TV's do not have, but they no where close to the features that broadcast LCD's like the BT-LH2550 have. You might not need those features, but everyone in broadcast does.

As for critical color Pro-Plasmas are better, but they are a bit more fussy and I would never use them without cinespace or truelight. I know a lot of colorists who still use HD CRT's and have reluctantly found the Pro-Plasma's adequate, but only if you can calibrate it daily, if not hourly, and you grade with the Plasma using all the colors possible and use cinespace or truelight do full range to re709 or whatever LUTS or colorspace conversions you need.

From there you have to decide how much of your critical work falls below the 20/30% digital scale, how much grading you are doing in the dark grey to black levels, in those dark area's LCD's have a viewing angle problem that can hinder that work. Something the Pro-Plasmas do better, but if you are really working in the darks you need a Projector.

I have found the BT-LH2550 has enough features and is acurate enough to grade 90% of the stuff I see on TV, but maybe not cinema, where the black to greys can tell the story. Also a lot of broadcast people are finding SONY broadcast LCD's, very easy to calibrate and use, and that is more important to them than the dark grey, light black areas.

For rec709 broadcast work the BT-LH2550 is great, if I where doing a feature film work to be shown in a cinema, I would probably rent a projector. When ProPlasmas can do 10bit HDMI, and I see that it is really 10bit, and I invest in color calibration tools and truelight, then that might be the way to go.

Actually, Alex, I am doing the color grading for cinema, though it is probably not for 35mm film, yet it is highly likely for DCP for cinema projection. Then what kind of projector is good enough for color grading? It will be very expensive, I think.
Thanks.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

The Panasonic is more of a tough location solution, and there are many others too. The Panasonic plasmas are the way to go.

 

[King Cheung]

The Panasonic is more of a tough location solution, and there are many others too. The Panasonic plasmas are the way to go.

Thanks, Roberto.
It seems many people in here recommend a plasma for color grading rather than a LCD monitor.
Then my common sense logic wonders why Panasonic still makes this expensive LCD monitor for professional uses.
Of course, obviously, there are many functions provided by LCD models, like waveform, underscan.
But how about gamut and color accuracy or other reasons for us to spend more for a LCD rather than plasma?
Thanks in advance.

 

[King Cheung]

In fact, I also heard about that Eizo makes a monitor which can somehow displays 2K image for a double of the LH2550's price.
Also, I heard about that for film output, none of these LCD monitors, even Eizo or Barco, can provide the gamut that film will produce. Is it correct?
Any thoughts?

 

[Alex Hastings]

Actually, Alex, I am doing the color grading for cinema, though it is probably not for 35mm film, yet it is highly likely for DCP for cinema projection. Then what kind of projector is good enough for color grading? It will be very expensive, I think.
Thanks.

Grading for cinema is never inexpensive, the reason I chimed in about the BT-LH2550 is we have a bunch of them on fcp/color suites and find them more than adequite.

If you can do pro-plasma and proper monitoring and proper LUTs and color calibration then they are great, but again if it's a budget thing Pro LCDs have their place. I guess the point of all this is that people have to figure out budgets, find the right tools that work and go from there.

The calibration tool that Tim mentioned is very expensive. Pro-Plasma + dual-link board + cinespace + calibration tools put you above 10k. With 10k their are a lot of very acurate LCDs that have a lot of features you wouldn't get with that plasma setup.

Barco, d-cinema, cinetal all use LCD technology and there are a lot of feature films grades with those tools.

Maybe if price is an issue you might have to go check out some products first hand and make the executive decision.

 

[King Cheung]

Grading for cinema is never inexpensive, the reason I chimed in about the BT-LH2550 is we have a bunch of them on fcp/color suites and find them more than adequite.

If you can do pro-plasma and proper monitoring and proper LUTs and color calibration then they are great, but again if it's a budget thing Pro LCDs have their place. I guess the point of all this is that people have to figure out budgets, find the right tools that work and go from there.

The calibration tool that Tim mentioned is very expensive. Pro-Plasma + dual-link board + cinespace + calibration tools put you above 10k. With 10k their are a lot of very acurate LCDs that have a lot of features you wouldn't get with that plasma setup.

Barco, d-cinema, cinetal all use LCD technology and there are a lot of feature films grades with those tools.

Maybe if price is an issue you might have to go check out some products first hand and make the executive decision.

thanks, Alex. It makes sense to me.