Is it allowed to show brands in an indy? without permission

[Mike Brent]

Hey,

Its a general question - someone told me that in film school he was told never to show any brand or copyrighted material as part of a shot... not in the background, not mentioned, not inferred, nada... I told him that I think the school just wanted to avoid problems but its just not possible that it is illegal to show EVERYTHING.

So whats the deal here? If my character walks around the street and looking into a store and we can see which one it is, is that OK? Can it read a Time magazine? Can it drink from a can of coke? Can two people watch TV while a famous movie is showing in the background?

A trickier one:

Can copyrighted music come out of a car radio, etc?

And finally - if the answer is really "no" - would anybody care if it would????

And what about shooting people in the street without signing them on anything? Can I show that?

Thanks

 

[Peter Hodgins]

Can it read a Time magazine?

Not unless you are trying to say your character is a moron.

Can it drink from a can of coke?

no.

Can two people watch TV while a famous movie is showing in the background?

no.

A trickier one:
Can copyrighted music come out of a car radio, etc?

not at all tricky ... no.

And finally - if the answer is really "no" - would anybody care if it would????

the copyright owner would care

And what about shooting people in the street without signing them on anything? Can I show that?

they could sue you ... they could say being in your movie subjected them to ridicule.

 

[Mike Brent]

So in Borat, for example, every single person was signed on a release, including the people he just walked by in the street? For example all the people in the background of this picture?

http://marksilva.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/20061103borat.jpg

I don't think so.......

 

[Joe D'Arcy]

Hey,

Its a general question - someone told me that in film school he was told never to show any brand or copyrighted material as part of a shot... not in the background, not mentioned, not inferred, nada... I told him that I think the school just wanted to avoid problems but its just not possible that it is illegal to show EVERYTHING.

So whats the deal here? If my character walks around the street and looking into a store and we can see which one it is, is that OK? Can it read a Time magazine? Can it drink from a can of coke? Can two people watch TV while a famous movie is showing in the background?

A trickier one:

Can copyrighted music come out of a car radio, etc?

And finally - if the answer is really "no" - would anybody care if it would????

And what about shooting people in the street without signing them on anything? Can I show that?

Thanks

As above. 'NO.'
You'll only get away with it if no-one sees your film. You MAY get way with it if the copyright owners think your film is insignificant. (Which defeats the purpose)
eg. Any of your characters singing 'happy Birthday' in your film will cost you up to $10K in music royalties to Warner.

 

[Brad Webb]

So in Borat, for example, every single person was signed on a release, including the people he just walked by in the street? For example all the people in the background of this picture?

http://marksilva.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/20061103borat.jpg

I don't think so.......

And Borat got sued by everyone that appeared in the movie.

 

[Joe D'Arcy]

So in Borat, for example, every single person was signed on a release, including the people he just walked by in the street? For example all the people in the background of this picture?

http://marksilva.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/20061103borat.jpg

I don't think so.......

If your film is a documentary you can get away with a lot more. "Borat' was passed off as a documentary-mockumentary to the extended cast etc. The production is now being pursued by some of those participants. (See link below).

http://www.documentaryfilms.net/index.php/borat-hurting-documentary-filmmakers/

Like many guerilla film makers, break the rules as much as you like as long as the risk/benefits outweigh the consequences.

 

[George Tsai]

This is a very very wide and broad range of questions you are asking. One can write a 20 page paper on this and still have left things out. such is legalities i guess haha

A lot of it will depend on what the film is for, wether its a parody, documentry, feature, etc. all have different fair use "guidelines". There's a lot more leeway in say a documentray than a feature film. And very much of it is grey area. Really depends on the situation. better on the safe side, unless you absolutely know its covered by fair use you're better off not using it. when in doubt dont use it!

 

[James McLellan]

Brands and Extras

Brands and Extras

There are a few things to consider here.

If you are an indy filmmaker clearly you are less of a financial target than large studio films. As such the rules can often be bent without attracting much attention. If you intend on producing films on a larger scale some day it's a good idea to start training yourself to identify these copyright restrictions now rather than later.

It's common on medium - large films to have releases performed on any scene that involves copyright images/logo's. In this way the companies owning the logos are contacted and advised of the appearance of their product.

In terms of background extras in public, keep in mind that news crews often have people appearing without permission on newscasts. I'm not a lawyer but I understand that if the people are not easily identifiable and the camera was not hidden then you are reasonably safe. Essentially backs of heads and people in the distance are normally acceptable.

It's not as hard to achieve once you get used to it. Just one more thing to think about.

 

[Andrew Rieger]

If you are going for shooting for say, a small film festival or internet contest on Vimeo, you are probably fine, but once you go into the big leagues, you need to address the issues, often by paying out, hence the budgets get much bigger.

 

[Peter Hodgins]

So in Borat, for example, every single person was signed on a release, including the people he just walked by in the street? For example all the people in the background of this picture?

http://marksilva.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/20061103borat.jpg

I don't think so.......

Probably no-one in that background signed a release, but that was not your question.

 

[Mike Brent]

Ok thanks.

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

If you are an indy filmmaker clearly you are less of a financial target than large studio films. As such the rules can often be bent without attracting much attention. If you intend on producing films on a larger scale some day it's a good idea to start training yourself to identify these copyright restrictions now rather than later.

I don't really agree with that, although as an indy filmmaker one has to take on many duties even as a director when you start to enter larger scale production you usually have people to handle all that wether it's the art department or some guy hired to sell product placement.

 

[Ian Planchon]

I come from a news world, so we were always told public space is open range for shooting. but I think news agencies get special treatment on that subject.

That being said, didnt the last Bourne movie shoot in that train station without hiring extras? they just got permission from the station to shoot on location and the actual commuters turned into extras. I am pretty sure they didnt go around and get EVERY person to sign a release.

 

[Mike Brent]

So that's why that scene was so awesome.... I think it would be impossible to shoot there any other way.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I come from a news world, so we were always told public space is open range for shooting. but I think news agencies get special treatment on that subject.

That being said, didnt the last Bourne movie shoot in that train station without hiring extras? they just got permission from the station to shoot on location and the actual commuters turned into extras. I am pretty sure they didnt go around and get EVERY person to sign a release.

You need to have a release from anyone who is clearly recognizable. Period.

 

[Mike Brent]

You need to have a release from anyone who is clearly recognizable. Period.

So if you make a video of Obama you need to ask him to sign a release?

I'm thinking about making a movie about this girl who fights with her boyfriend every time she gets her period and in the end he kills her or she kills herself. The planned title is "There Will Be Blood". Is that allowed? :ihih:

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Hey,

Its a general question - someone told me that in film school he was told never to show any brand or copyrighted material as part of a shot... not in the background, not mentioned, not inferred, nada... I told him that I think the school just wanted to avoid problems but its just not possible that it is illegal to show EVERYTHING.

So whats the deal here? If my character walks around the street and looking into a store and we can see which one it is, is that OK? Can it read a Time magazine? Can it drink from a can of coke? Can two people watch TV while a famous movie is showing in the background?

A trickier one:

Can copyrighted music come out of a car radio, etc?

And finally - if the answer is really "no" - would anybody care if it would????

And what about shooting people in the street without signing them on anything? Can I show that?

Thanks

Besides all the above correct answers in the Copyright laws. that is more to it, if you have any one appearing and are not signed an or paid for, even if is just $1 (ONE DOLLAR) they can sue and held part ownership of your project, and many courts thru out the US have already awarded this type of law suit in favor of the Actors and or Participants, so be very careful, there is plenty of information available on the net, most of which is for free, and the most important papers and contract cost little, as far as copyrighted material goes, at times especially if the Owner of what ever you wish to use likes the project, might actually allow the use of their material at no cost to you, but they might ask for a re-write of some scenes in your project in order to better fit the use of their material.

So if you make a video of Obama you need to ask him to sign a release?

Shooting videos of any one is entirely a different subject, shooting Video-segments of anything and or anyone for the use of making a movie with out understanding and following the rules of Filmmaking and their laws will do but one sure thing.."GET YOU IN TRUBLE"

I'm thinking about making a movie about this girl who fights with her boyfriend every time she gets her period and in the end he kills her or she kills herself. The planned title is "There Will Be Blood". Is that allowed? :ihih:

Utilizing already used and popular movie titles, even so it is not forbidden by law, can still be pursued in some States, and or countries, while again usable in most scenarios, comprised titles are more tricky then titles which carry single names of History and or Named character of of such, like "Gladiator" "300" "Ercules" movie titles with City, towns, country names the same this are all usable at no issues at all, but names which are comprised of assembled words such as "There Will Be Blood" its an other story all together, so do your research before you use it.

But what I might add, is that in my recent meetings with some Studio Majors, I have come to understand very clearly that a Studio will not do marketing very willingly on a project barring the name of an other Studio already used and famous Film, mainly not for law suit issues, but simply form a Marketing stand point, and not to want direct people to the wrong "There Will Be Blood" project, in an era were the search engine plays a vital role in all Marketing, so take it in consideration.

 

[Mike Brent]

I was joking.

Its strange that you need to ask permission to show a logo, but Pizza Hut and Dominos have these ads that say "they suck, our pizzas are better" etc etc, using the other companies name and I think even logos etc.

Wasn't a RC Cola ad that shows a kid stepping over a pepsi and coke can to get an RC cola out of a vending machine?

OK i fount it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDpv5IrDzR0

OK screw everything. If they can do that, I can do whatever I want. They can sue me if they want, to me its a matter of freedom of expression and I'm ready to fight for it.

 

[Liam Hall]

It's worth noting that most release forms aren't worth the paper they are written on, but that's another story...

 

[Mike Brent]

Liam, that Avatar of yours - did you create that gun image? Because if not, colt is going to go after you. And that red "not allowed" sign is copyrighted by the church, so I would better change that color on that thing to yellow from red.

Ho and the word red is owned by red.

And the word Avatar........

shit

Ok this is really getting into a philosophical post modern discussion about the "deconstruction" of reality and life symbolizing signs instead of the other way around etc etc. We are surrounded by brands and logos that do not simply represent, lets say, a chocolate, or a computer, but are associated in our brain with all kind of other things - childhood memories, a reflection of who we are, etc etc. So "reality" itself has been taken over by marketing companies and large corporations that sell people junk they don't need so those people can satisfy all kinds of physiological needs, for example so we could explain ourselves why we work so hard instead of spending time with the people who are important to us.