Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: EPIC genlock and shutter phase

Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 30
  1. #1 EPIC genlock and shutter phase 
    Senior Member Jason Goodman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York City & Los Angeles
    Posts
    324
    We were recently contacted by our good friend Charlie Parra at Denecke about some problems one of his customers was having shooting 3D with two EPICs and an SB-T. After trying sync boxes from all manufacturers, it was determined that the problem originated elsewhere, however the questions prompted us to conduct a comprehensive test of "3D sync" for the current (as of yesterday) build of EPIC.

    True "3D sync" requires genlock of course, but also shutter phase sync. In addition to the camera's internal clocks being synchronized, shutter timing must also be perfectly synchronized or very noticeable visual artifacts will be present in your 3D imagery.

    Tests we conducted in 2009, prior to shooting Julia X and published on REDUSER by Pedro Guimaraes, indicated that RED ONE (and RED ONE MX) never fully achieved perfect shutter phase sync. RED ONE builds later than 21 did allow cameras to be genlocked and 3D worked well up to 120fps at 2K. Many 3D films have been successfully shot with RED ONE. The small shutter phase error was generally not considered a problem and in most cases was not noticeable.

    The good news is, all builds of EPIC I have seen including beta builds we used last year on The Amazing Spider-Man have exhibited absolutely dead perfect shutter phase sync. The ASM crew was instructed by RED as to which frame rates, resolutions and time bases to use in 3D for that film, and to my knowledge we did not exceed 72fps in 3D.

    As always, with newer builds come new capabilities.

    Last week, prompted by Charlie's inquiry, we tested as many combinations of resolution, frame rate and time base as we could think of. We have assembled the most comprehensive list of working 3D modes for the EPIC and I've posted it here for reference.

    One issue of particular interest, we noticed instances where the EPIC would indicate GEN, TC and SYNC, but in fact, shutter phase was off. We did the classic test of shooting an LED timecode slate with the shutter set to 1/1000th of a second so we could see partial redraw of the LED numbers. If the numbers are not drawn exactly the same in both eyes, shutter phase is off. Here's the chart:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...lE&output=html
    Jason Goodman
    CEO
    21st Century 3D
    http://www.21c3d.com
    jason@21stcentury3d.com
    @21C3D
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Senior Member Rich Schaefer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    SoCal & Tyrol-Austria
    Posts
    968
    Awesome list Jason!

    Thanks a million for sharing.

    Prost,
    Rich
    3 Epics! M462, X108, X1266
    Epic 3D Beamsplitter 3D Rig-FIZ controled, 3D S/S rigs, Excellent 8ton G&E Truck!
    2 RedOnes #115 & #3090
    Local 600-D.P.
    www.highimpactpictures.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    Senior Member Pedro Guimaraes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Burbank, CA
    Posts
    611
    So awesome!!!!!!

    I know this took some time to put together so........Thanks Jason!!

    Will be a great help to everyone shooting 3D with EPIC.

    ....naturally would be great it the cameras always locked.....
    ---------------------------------
    Pedro Guimaraes, SOC
    IATSE Local 600 - Operator

    Steadicam-Gimbals / Underwater / 3D cinema
    C-Motion Cvolution Wireless lens control 8 motor system for rent.
    Handsfree Segway for rent
    Ronin/Movi gimbals for Rent
    www.pgfilms.tv - Bio&Reel
    www.steadi3d.com - BLog
    www.cinemilled.com - Gimbal accessories & other cinema products
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member Eli Jarra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    315
    Thanks Jason! That really helps alot... So I guess 72fps still appears to be the highest framerate that syncs at 5K res.
    Out of all the genlock boxes you've worked with, is the Denecke your first choice?
    ---T H I N K P I C T U R E S--- http://vimeo.com/thinkpictures --- twitter: @powrslave ---
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Senior Member Jason Goodman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York City & Los Angeles
    Posts
    324
    Denecke 3D SB-T is the first choice for EPIC.
    Jason Goodman
    CEO
    21st Century 3D
    http://www.21c3d.com
    jason@21stcentury3d.com
    @21C3D
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Jason, Thank you for doing this legwork.....

    Keep up the hard work and let me know when you re in LA....

    Peter
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    Senior Member Ross Isaacs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Port Douglas, Australia
    Posts
    482
    I am getting my Ambient 204 next week.
    Director/Producer
    Ocean Planet 3D/Ocean Planet Images
    http://www.oceanplanetimages.com.au
    Pathfinder rebreather diver armed with Deep Atom

    RED ONE in GATES DEEP RED underwater housing
    EPIC X in GATES DEEP ATOM underwater housing
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8.   Click here to go to the next RED TEAM post in this thread.
  #8  
    Hi Jason

    In your chart, does the column labelled 21C3D Test Sync indicate your qualification of the LED drawing? And the column Epic Sync indicate the icon on the UI?
    I assume you were reviewing footage not monitor display. And your test set up is two Epics on your right angle beam splitter rig?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Senior Member Eli Jarra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    315
    Thanks Jason for the input. I've been seeing the SB-T in the 850-$900 range online, but then I realized it may not be the latest & greatest 3D mod'd version of the SB-T.
    Will call Charlie and verify this.
    ---T H I N K P I C T U R E S--- http://vimeo.com/thinkpictures --- twitter: @powrslave ---
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    Senior Member Jason Goodman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York City & Los Angeles
    Posts
    324
    Hi Dave,

    The 21c3D Test Sync column indicates that we photographed an LED timecode slate at that timebase and frame rate, with the shutter set to 1/1000th of a second so we could closely analyze the redraw of the numbers, and we determined that the partially drawn numbers looked identical in each eye. The EPIC Sync column indicates the icon on the UI thought it was in sync. We used our two EPIC-X cameras on a 21st Century 3D BX3.5 beam splitter at 0" IA so essentially identical viewpoints for the EPICs. All evaluations were done on recorded footage rendered out of Cine X.
    Jason Goodman
    CEO
    21st Century 3D
    http://www.21c3d.com
    jason@21stcentury3d.com
    @21C3D
    Reply With Quote  
     

Tags for this Thread

View Tag Cloud

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts