Thread: I call Hot Rod Cameras Bluff with a $10,000 Bet (for Sharpest PL RF for Komodo)

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  1. #131  
    Senior Member Jacek Zakowicz's Avatar
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    In a way I have tested that many cameras since we sold our adapters for them and no complaints...;-)
    But again-
    all have adjustable sensor position
    all have very rigid base mounts
    we did not put glass in our adapters
    Neither condition applies in this case-
    Komodo does not have adjustment for the sensor position
    Komodo does not have very rigid base mount
    Adapters for the Komodo have glass inside them (which may not be an issue ...)
    Jacek Zakowicz, Optitek-dot-org, jacek2@optitek.org
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  2. #132  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    I'm not taking any stance that any adapters are rubbish really. What's merely being discussed is being a bit more ideal out of the box, which is a tit for tat between two manufacturers. That's between them really.

    However, if anything can be taken from this thread outside of the chatter and slapping, please do inspect and properly collimate your glass and back focus your sensor or sensor + adapter combo. Your images will thank you.

    Now what I'd love to see is a RF>PL strength test on a few different cameras, but again use a support of some sort either to body or base plate and you'll be fine.

    I'm going to go roll naked in my Les Bosher and old Panavsion adapters for a while.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  3. #133  
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    No lenses in PL mount are shipping to spec.

    If they are, then they probably won’t stay in spec. That’s how it goes. Thermals. Stress and change over time.

    The whole idea of a perfect PL-RF mount to spec on a camera that’s also perfect and to spec is kind of pointless if the lens has to be assumed to either be out or, one day will be out.

    I get that a lot of new players are in this market. Both those making lenses and those buying them.

    I get that some are ignorant of the shimming and adjustment process.

    Hoping for some magical day when the variation copy to copy and tolerances from a plethora of manufacturers is unified and good enough not require vigilance and shimming seems to just be encouraging bad practice. Those problems will never STAY solved over time.

    Marketing a product that solves a problem that can’t actually be solved whilst encouraging the teaching of bad practice doesn’t seem like the best path to be on.

    Shouldn’t we be teaching those that are new to PL what best practice is ?

    Even if the stated goals of the two manufacturers of making a perfect mount could be met, there’s still a problem in that the lens must be assumed to not be made to the same spec or if it is, that it changes over time.

    So the marketing promise is actually creating a solution that actually isn’t good practice. Someone’s going to buy a perfect out the box mount, slap a poorly performing lens on their Komodo and have potential issues with their lens not scaling or staying parfocal.

    We should be educating those new to PL users. Not assuming that they won’t check anyway and selling them a “perfect out of the box” solution that will lead to problems when they mount a PL lens that’s not shimmed to spec…which at the moment as has been said many times…is more likely than not.

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  4. #134  
    Senior Member Kemalettin Sert's Avatar
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    I still dont understand why should i pay 2-3 times more for a dumb mount?
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  5. #135  
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    John,

    I do not buy into your statement "No lenses in PL mount are shipping to spec" as that is certainly not my experience. I buy my glass from Duclos and I know that every lens that goes out the door from them is in spec. Duclos even follows up a year after purchase and asks if the customer if they would like their lens checked to insure it is still in spec without charge. Although this service is not available from box houses such as B&H and Adorama as far as I know, I would certainly think any reputable retailer with an adiquately equiped lens repair department would or could verify proper lens specs as routine or by request. Over the past 50 years I have purchased new PL Angenieux and Zeiss lenses and had no need to reshim. Those were purchased from Century Precision Optics back in the day.
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  6. #136  
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    Vance, I have no doubt Duclos checks the lenses before they get into your hands :-)

    Like any good sales company would do.

    It was a while ago, but we took delivery of lenses while I worked in prep and some were great and some weren’t.

    We routinely checked and and it certainly wasn’t unusual to need to re-shim them.

    On my last job we had to send back two of the six zooms to be re-done in prep.

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  7. #137  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    Or is the flat glas not working as a factor but as a straight offset?
    Ah, now I understand what you were asking before. Thanks Björn. I don't know the answer, but I would tend to trust Jacek above.

    I am still confused by the side-by-side images Graham posted. Why is one not sharp? Was it focussed using a tape and the lens markings perhaps? Or was it done by eye? It does not make sense to me, and I would love an explanation from someone who knows more about this.
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  8. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hofmeyr View Post
    Ah, now I understand what you were asking before. Thanks Björn. I don't know the answer, but I would tend to trust Jacek above.

    I am still confused by the side-by-side images Graham posted. Why is one not sharp? Was it focussed using a tape and the lens markings perhaps? Or was it done by eye? It does not make sense to me, and I would love an explanation from someone who knows more about this.
    Yes, happy A was hte case or there would just be chaos with bachfocus issues.

    Now, why did Jarred and gang not atleast give Komodo a flat machined front around the FD mount with 4 threaded screwholes. Its not like the camera has anything else going on in the front and imagine how much easer it would be to make / mount riggid lens adapters if it had. So much beta testing etc and then the camera comes out with some completely not needed design pattern in the front. Flat machined aluminum would have been a god send in comparison. :)
    Björn Benckert
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  9. #139  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    Yes, happy A was hte case or there would just be chaos with bachfocus issues.

    Now, why did Jarred and gang not atleast give Komodo a flat machined front around the FD mount with 4 threaded screwholes. Its not like the camera has anything else going on in the front and imagine how much easer it would be to make / mount riggid lens adapters if it had. So much beta testing etc and then the camera comes out with some completely not needed design pattern in the front. Flat machined aluminum would have been a god send in comparison. :)
    Yeah, I'm playing with my Komodo rigging right now. The Canon RF to EF adapter is really not a solid solution. It rotates quite a bit, but what worries me more is how easy it is to move the lens up or down. I can use lens support, but that might even hold the lens at an angle to the camera and push the sensor plane out of alignment if it is not very carefully fitted.
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  10. #140  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    4 threaded screwholes.
    It does, 4X on the front sides, which is why there are some adapters that use this.

    And if I was a guessing man, also more useful to have those in that orientation on a smaller camera, but who knows.

    Unfortunately Canon's focus with the RF to EF adapter has not much to do about motion peeps, moderately why the door is wide open for better adapter designs suited for motion. Interestingly their focal reducer is a different concept mainly for the C70. It's got a bit of play, just like anything else.

    And yes, some PL lenses "ship to a spec". The Supremes would be the more interesting example as their release is tied to being the main competitor to the Arri Signatures and with that they initially were released shimmed for the Alexa LF and Mini LF. Zeiss is now changing this however to put them right on 52mm.

    A lot of the notable manufacturers are tightening things up camera and lens side.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Monstro 8K VV Bodies, 1X RED Komodo, and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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