Thread: The SDI issues

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  1. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post


    My komodo has been out quite frequently and I had no issues. It could be the Vaxis atom that saves my ass. With a bit of luck Red forced Vaxis to put an isolator inside of the module to approve it so the SDI port is secured, or at least that is what they should have done, the Vaxis is built in away so when mounted vertical then you can not even get the SDI cable out of the camera or module.... And as I understand its´only 3G video coming out of in the vaxis SDI port. likely because its difficult to find a 12G isolator that works well and does not cost a fortune so I suspect that's the reason it only does lower G´s.
    I've just spent 2 hours reading through every single post and trying to form my own opinions on this, with almost 0 knowledge of electronics and all of that. I got my Komodo back in December and was primarily shooting snowboarding - rough conditions, no time to follow procedures (also because this wasn't as well known of an issue). Fast forward to ~March and I start reading about all of this and it sits in the back of my head when it's time to go out and shoot, I'm almost afraid to use the camera. I have 2 shoots back to back, different AC's so I'm really trying to lock this down.

    Here is my setup: Komodo powered by Core SWX plate + Core Nano V mounts, D tap out powering my Atomos Shinobi SDI/HDMI monitor (also have powered via separate battery), and a Nano FF powered via D tap or USB. I bought 1 SDI from B&H that claimed it was shielded 12G (although BH had no clue what this was) and another person I met on the Komodo Users FB Group sold me 2 cables that he had made himself (great price, great guy, and they've worked like a charm so far). Occasionally I have a wireless monitoring system running via the SDI out on the Shinobi to a focus puller or director's monitor.

    What I'm wondering is if this little $400 monitor that clearly says 3G SDI on it has saved my ass throughout all of this. It seems that there is literally no consistency to what is happening to those with issues - monitor with d tap/lemo/separate battery, AC powering - nothing.

    I have no need for external recording or a 4k monitor. Directors are happy to view in 1080 and I get 6k internal raw, why would I want anything else?

    Can anyone tell me if this sounds like a relatively safe option? How have I been this lucky so far to not blow my SDI? My only guess is the 3g connection through the Shinobi and would love for someone with more knowledge here to confirm.


    Thanks!

    *also now that I've learned about this issue, I'm definitely doing what I can to mitigate the risk by following procedure*
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  2. #152  
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    The this statement in support ticket in my opinion is confusing:

    "RED recommends only using high quality, shielded BNC cables that are rated for 12G-SDI signals and only using shielded power cables for connecting accessories via BNC cable."

    Maybe should read:

    RED recommends only using high quality, shielded BNC cables that are rated for 12G-SDI signals and only using shielded power cables for connecting accessories which require a BNC cable.

    This needs to be published in the Komodo operation manual along with the connection and powering on and off sequences as a WARNING. Anything less such as leaving it up to a REDUSER to post a copy of a support ticket on a blog for only a few to read does not truely support Komodo users and can only hurt Red's reputation with SDI board faiures on sets and locations caused by those who are unaware of this issue.

    Better would be for Red to email an "Alert Bullitin" to all Komodo owners via email of the issue and proper proceedures to minimize chances of SDI board failure.
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  3. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Henaghan View Post
    I've just spent 2 hours reading through every single post and trying to form my own opinions on this, with almost 0 knowledge of electronics and all of that. I got my Komodo back in December and was primarily shooting snowboarding - rough conditions, no time to follow procedures (also because this wasn't as well known of an issue). Fast forward to ~March and I start reading about all of this and it sits in the back of my head when it's time to go out and shoot, I'm almost afraid to use the camera. I have 2 shoots back to back, different AC's so I'm really trying to lock this down.

    Here is my setup: Komodo powered by Core SWX plate + Core Nano V mounts, D tap out powering my Atomos Shinobi SDI/HDMI monitor (also have powered via separate battery), and a Nano FF powered via D tap or USB. I bought 1 SDI from B&H that claimed it was shielded 12G (although BH had no clue what this was) and another person I met on the Komodo Users FB Group sold me 2 cables that he had made himself (great price, great guy, and they've worked like a charm so far). Occasionally I have a wireless monitoring system running via the SDI out on the Shinobi to a focus puller or director's monitor.

    What I'm wondering is if this little $400 monitor that clearly says 3G SDI on it has saved my ass throughout all of this. It seems that there is literally no consistency to what is happening to those with issues - monitor with d tap/lemo/separate battery, AC powering - nothing.

    I have no need for external recording or a 4k monitor. Directors are happy to view in 1080 and I get 6k internal raw, why would I want anything else?

    Can anyone tell me if this sounds like a relatively safe option? How have I been this lucky so far to not blow my SDI? My only guess is the 3g connection through the Shinobi and would love for someone with more knowledge here to confirm.


    Thanks!

    *also now that I've learned about this issue, I'm definitely doing what I can to mitigate the risk by following procedure*
    I think basically you just been lucky.

    Basically to stay out of trouble you would need to pull out the SDI cable when swaping power on your Shinobi or camera.

    Dtaps are fine if they are plugged in correctly before power is applied. That is valid for all ends female as well as male connectors. One way to cheat Dtap is to make sure they can not be connected + pol first. Basically drill out the first millimeters of your + female connector tubes...

    Lemos are more difficult to get unlucky with as the shield of them connects before the studs. So not so worried about them.

    The Shielded SDI cables, sure good if they are sheilded but thats no guarantie for anything you can still get a power to run in the lead and then it fries the SDI prot anyway.

    Possibly there is some kind of protection in the Shinobi. But nothing I would take for granted.

    Personally I think it´s great that komodo has UHD out, thats the future for sure even on set. But yes, I would rather stick with HD then having the camera go sour.
    Björn Benckert
    Creative Lead & Founder Syndicate Entertainment AB
    +46855524900 www.syndicate.se/axis
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  4. #154  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vance Colvig View Post
    The this statement in support ticket in my opinion is confusing:

    "RED recommends only using high quality, shielded BNC cables that are rated for 12G-SDI signals and only using shielded power cables for connecting accessories via BNC cable."

    Maybe should read:

    RED recommends only using high quality, shielded BNC cables that are rated for 12G-SDI signals and only using shielded power cables for connecting accessories which require a BNC cable.

    This needs to be published in the Komodo operation manual along with the connection and powering on and off sequences as a WARNING. Anything less such as leaving it up to a REDUSER to post a copy of a support ticket on a blog for only a few to read does not truely support Komodo users and can only hurt Red's reputation with SDI board faiures on sets and locations caused by those who are unaware of this issue.

    Better would be for Red to email an "Alert Bullitin" to all Komodo owners via email of the issue and proper proceedures to minimize chances of SDI board failure.
    Agreed. I saw another guy on the Red Komodo Users FB yesterday with a blown SDI. He had no idea about the issue or the order of operation.
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  5. #155  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Henaghan View Post
    I've just spent 2 hours reading through every single post and trying to form my own opinions on this, with almost 0 knowledge of electronics and all of that. I got my Komodo back in December and was primarily shooting snowboarding - rough conditions, no time to follow procedures (also because this wasn't as well known of an issue). Fast forward to ~March and I start reading about all of this and it sits in the back of my head when it's time to go out and shoot, I'm almost afraid to use the camera. I have 2 shoots back to back, different AC's so I'm really trying to lock this down.

    Here is my setup: Komodo powered by Core SWX plate + Core Nano V mounts, D tap out powering my Atomos Shinobi SDI/HDMI monitor (also have powered via separate battery), and a Nano FF powered via D tap or USB. I bought 1 SDI from B&H that claimed it was shielded 12G (although BH had no clue what this was) and another person I met on the Komodo Users FB Group sold me 2 cables that he had made himself (great price, great guy, and they've worked like a charm so far). Occasionally I have a wireless monitoring system running via the SDI out on the Shinobi to a focus puller or director's monitor.

    What I'm wondering is if this little $400 monitor that clearly says 3G SDI on it has saved my ass throughout all of this. It seems that there is literally no consistency to what is happening to those with issues - monitor with d tap/lemo/separate battery, AC powering - nothing.

    I have no need for external recording or a 4k monitor. Directors are happy to view in 1080 and I get 6k internal raw, why would I want anything else?

    Can anyone tell me if this sounds like a relatively safe option? How have I been this lucky so far to not blow my SDI? My only guess is the 3g connection through the Shinobi and would love for someone with more knowledge here to confirm.


    Thanks!

    *also now that I've learned about this issue, I'm definitely doing what I can to mitigate the risk by following procedure*
    It's confusing, isn't it? And even when you do get a response from someone online saying do this or that, how do you know if they really know what they are talking about? That's why Red needs to clear this up.

    FWIW, the d-tap to monitor connection you have could cause the ground loop issue if you plug it in when the SDI cable is connected. Shorten the positive pin (see earlier in this thread) or always plug in the monitor's power cable before the SDI cable. I don't believe changing batteries while the SDI cable is connected will cause an issue, but others seem to think it will.
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  6. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hofmeyr View Post
    Agreed. I saw another guy on the Red Komodo Users FB yesterday with a blown SDI. He had no idea about the issue or the order of operation.
    A shit storm no doubt.

    They need to come up with a 12G Video isolation transformer very quick. I think this works but then you are on 12G: https://www.allenavionics.com/product-details/hd-vit-75


    Possibly this issue is part reason why the add to cart is not available on the red webpage. Seams like a remake of the video board would be in place so they dont have to do a total recall.
    Björn Benckert
    Creative Lead & Founder Syndicate Entertainment AB
    +46855524900 www.syndicate.se/axis
    VFX / Flame / Motion capture / Monstro
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  7. #157  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    A shit storm no doubt.

    They need to come up with a 12G Video isolation transformer very quick. I think this works but then you are on 12G: https://www.allenavionics.com/product-details/hd-vit-75


    Possibly this issue is part reason why the add to cart is not available on the red webpage. Seams like a remake of the video board would be in place so they dont have to do a total recall.
    Yeah. I ordered one of those isolators but they are backordered at B&H, estimated arrival 2-4 weeks. If anyone knows where they are in stock, please let me know.
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  8. #158  
    I also find it extremely ironic that this camera was marketed as "crash cam" but it can't even withstand an AC putting it together
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  9. #159 Mitigation... 
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    FWIW, Jarred has never been a fan of P-tap for on camera power distro. No way to know what percentage of issues noted in this thread are directly tied to the inherent limitations of an unshielded connector that will presumably hit the positive + pol before the negative - pol 50% of the time. That said, metal shielded 2 pin Lemo (or ODU) seems like a smart way to reduce risk and is a more secure connection mechanically. If you're interested in going all 2 pin, the splitter noted below might be useful:

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...wer.html/?ap=y

    IAC, beyond the P-tap limitations and 12g SDI issues, I'd love to know what happens at the moment a V-mount battery is mounted or dismounted. Is this another opportunity for the positive pol to strike first? Do some plates have isolators or other electronics built in that prevent spikes from going anywhere? Are some low cost plates made without protection?

    Not sure what the cost, or impact on reliability might be, but why not a relay in the plate that doesn't close until both positive and negative are available? If I'm totally off base, I'd be happy to get schooled up on the subject.

    Cheers - #19
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  10. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hofmeyr View Post
    It's confusing, isn't it? And even when you do get a response from someone online saying do this or that, how do you know if they really know what they are talking about? That's why Red needs to clear this up.

    FWIW, the d-tap to monitor connection you have could cause the ground loop issue if you plug it in when the SDI cable is connected. Shorten the positive pin (see earlier in this thread) or always plug in the monitor's power cable before the SDI cable. I don't believe changing batteries while the SDI cable is connected will cause an issue, but others seem to think it will.
    Its quite simple, for sure changing battery is just as bad as plugging in a Dtap. look at the pins on a V mount battery. + and - are just as long the chance that you connect it + first is very much 50% then the current will try to find the easiest way to ground, if that is your SDI cable then your I/O might go bye bye.
    Björn Benckert
    Creative Lead & Founder Syndicate Entertainment AB
    +46855524900 www.syndicate.se/axis
    VFX / Flame / Motion capture / Monstro
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